How to Use TikTok to Grow Your Podcast Audience (Without Dancing), With Cara Newhart

Can you grow your podcast audience on TikTok? Should you be spending more time on TikTok producing than you are today? If you're like me, those two questions have kind of been knowing it you for a while. Today in early 2022, TikTok is massive. It seems that everybody and their mom is producing content on there, and it seems like people are able to grow an audience of millions in just a matter of weeks, and that's not even an exaggeration. For those of us who aren't currently building a presence on TikTok, it feels like there's actually this low hum of anxiety, right? That we're like missing out on something that we should be doing. But at the same time, we've already got enough on our plate, producing podcast episodes, releasing them, promoting them, doing targeted daily engagement, trying to monetize them. And let's be honest, TikTok just seems so complicated and that it'll just take forever to figure it all out, right? That's what it feels like. I'm right there with you. But here's the thing we have to admit, TikTok is not going anywhere. It's here to stay. And if we want to be online creators and to have a profitable online business that revolves around a podcast, we're going to have to learn more about TikTok sooner or later. So why not begin today? Now, I've been lucky enough to build two profitable podcasts in the past four years, including this one, both of them reached six figures in revenue within two years of launching, but I actually haven't made any good TikToks before. So I can't be the one to share the dues and don'ts of TikTok. But the person who can is with us here today. Her name is Cara Newhart. She's the designer and DIYer behind the Never Skip Runch blog and the hosts of the Make Space podcast. And you can say that she's a bit of an expert on social media and on short form video. She has over 150,000 Instagram followers and over 450,000 TikTok followers. And that's just at the time of this recording. She gets TikTok and pretty soon, you're going to get TikTok too. This is Grow the Show. My name is Kevin Schmidland and my mission is to help you the independent podcaster to grow your audience and monetize now so that you can have a thriving podcast business. Today, we are joined by Grow the Show accelerator student Cara Newhart, who is going to map out the dues and don'ts of TikTok. She's going to dive into exactly what makes a viral video pop. And she's going to share how you can start making short form videos today on TikTok or via Instagram Reels so that you and your podcasts can go viral too. So if that sounds good, then stick around to this episode of Grow the Show. My name is Cara Newhart and I'm the interior designer and DIY queen behind Never Skip brunch. You might say that design and DIY are in Cara's blood. I was raised creative. My dad was a contractor and realtor. I grew up learning how to use a drill like crawling around in hot addicts, changing light fixtures with my dad while all my friends worked retail in the air conditioning. Clearly, she's never been afraid to take on work in fields that are traditionally dominated by men. Her early career was no exception. I was in business school going to school for a very specific finance degree in energy and I was minoring in art. So I started out in corporate finance working in oil and gas. Very old school male dominated. My title was literally Landman. So it tells you everything you need to know. But even working in such a buttoned up corporate field, she couldn't ignore her urge to explore the creative side of her personality. I could never get away from it no matter what I did. And then, you know, making crafts on the side, like making at one point, it was like t-shirts. I was like drawing art and putting them on t-shirts and then kind of started like a blog on the side just for fun. It was a fashion blog. The outfits were horrible. Like if you scroll back, you get to see them all. That fashion blog was called Never Skip Brunch. Everyone was naming their blogs like Champagne and Chaos and bubbles and whatever. And all of everything I wanted was taken. So I'm sitting on the couch looking up URLs. They're all taken. My stomach growls whenever let's go to brunch. I never skip brunch. Never skip brunch really scratched an itch for Kara that nothing else really had. I was kind of like expressing myself creatively alongside this corporate job. They think when you're in a corporate role, things are very clear. Like expectations are very clear. There's a very specific way to succeed. And you get feedback, right? You get feedback from your boss. You there's raises, there's promotions, there's a structure for success. When you're on your own creative journey, it is all up to you. Like you are for real forging path through the forest and you can go any direction. And it's almost like that potential is overwhelming. So I think the fear, honestly, I think if you reframe that as it's actually excitement, like actually it's you're scared because you could do anything. But the fashion blog didn't last for long. And that's not because she stopped blogging. It's actually because it evolved into more than a fashion blog. The fashion thing that led to like lifestyle because outfits felt flat to me. It's like, oh, let me share more of my life. And then I did like one home post got the most feedback I'd ever gotten. People were finally talking to me. So instead of I was talking at them and I was like, okay, well, maybe this is something. And then something happened that inspired Cara to move even further from fashion and even more into the DIY space. Butter first house. It was time to like, you know, decorate, make it my own. My dad was a contractor and realtor. And so he would have been the one helping me transform these spaces. Like the one I would go to for advice and all of that. Would have, but sadly, this could not happen. I actually lost him to cancer in college. So Cara had a new house that needed some major TLC. But the one person who she thought would help guide her and help her create her dream home was unable to do that. If it were me, I might just bite the bullet and hire a contractor to do all the work. But Cara saw this as a way to honor her dad's legacy. It was kind of like a carry on the torch. Like if he was here, he'd be like, teach yourself. You got this like dive in and do it. And so I just picked up power tools and taught myself how to do the projects. At first, it was messy and difficult. You literally have no idea what you're doing. Your YouTube being your making mistakes, like major mistakes, learning to pivot and learning to adapt. And I think that's honestly the best part of the process. They think, you know, in the terms of home DIY, you see before and after photos, it's like, it looked like this. And then it looked like this. And so for me, it's like, okay, how do I share that process with my audience? What I like taught myself, how you experiment, you dive in. And I think that's like something with creativity in general. Like you don't see the messy part on social media as much. But that experimentation is so essential. Like that's what makes you good. And that's what helps you find your voice. Here we uncover the power of social media as it relates to you building out your podcast business, sharing the process behind what you're building. Really, this creative business is just like a home DIY project. You have a before and an after. That's what most people share on social media, right? The before, the after and nothing in between. I've been very guilty of this myself. And Kara used to be the same way. It started when Instagram, like before stories existed. So it was just images, right? So you could leave out the whole middle part and know when needed information. Then stories come out and it's like, oh, well, we got to be talking about something. I guess I'll share the process and show people like how I thought of the plan or like what, how I came up with it and then how I made it. So I was like starting with sharing on stories. So Kara discovered the power of sharing the in progress pieces of what she was building on social media and her audience loved it. Rather than just sharing a before picture and an after picture, she started sharing little videos on her Instagram story showing the process. And remember, this was about five years ago when the latest and greatest social media feature was Instagram stories and Snapchat stories. That point, it was like, you know, like 10 to 20 slides a day, like lots of video. So learning how to do that in short form has been a process, how to whittle it down to like the essentials. That skill would come in handy when a few years later, Kara would receive an invitation from a new social platform. I think it was like 2019 into 2020. They had a really cool creator program where you made like a video every day for like 40 days. And so I said, yes, Kara was invited by TikTok to join a creator program where she got paid to make videos and grow her audience on TikTok. Today, that sounds like a no brainer, right? But back then, most of us probably would have said no. It was still early, right? Like we know Reels were nowhere near on Instagram. No one was on TikTok. So it was like short form video bootcamp, honestly, because it's just I was throwing stuff up. I had no idea what I was doing. I was essentially at that point, repurposing story content from Instagram and then really just throwing things up and seeing what hit. But the beauty of TikTok is it's very like open. Like everyone really likes to tell you what they think. And so the feedback is very clear on if you're doing good or not. And so that was like amazing. It was very challenging because a lot of mindset, like learning to hype myself up. Commenters on TikTok are not afraid to tell you what they think. So if you're going to be on that platform, you got to develop thick skin. But really, having such unfiltered feedback is actually a blessing because it allows you to not have to guess what people think. You're able to quickly and effectively understand what videos people like and what they don't like by implementing this super fast feedback loop. Kara has built herself an incredible platform that allows her to carry on her father's legacy by empowering other women the way that he empowered her. With power tools, there's something very empowering because there seems to be like a big fear around them, which if you haven't used them is a good thing. Like they are dangerous. You have to use them safely. But it's a very tangible way to teach people to dive in creatively and overcome fears. And I think through that process of hands on teaching yourself to do something, having an end result of an after I think it leads to like deeper life transformation. And for me, I've seen tools become so much more, you know, it's like the creative outlet for the mom that seems to have lost herself in having kids. It's the creative outlet for someone working in corporate that needs something for them. It's, you know, even in extreme cases, people learning to do things themselves and getting the confidence to leave like abusive relationships, because they realize like, wait a second, I don't have to stay here. Like I can do this myself. And so it's like a physical way to get to that like deep transformation through creativity. And, you know, it's not just art. It's not like, okay, let's go paint for fun. And it's like, you're actually adding value to your home. You're actually transforming spaces that, you know, affect your everyday life and serve your everyday life. So what started out as a fashion blog that served as a creative outlet turned into a full time home improvement content creation job for Kara. Today, she's surpassed 150 followers on Instagram and 450 followers on TikTok. And that number is growing fast. She's an interior designer and a consultant. She started her own podcast. She's built an entire empire. And that is all largely in thanks to social media and specifically TikTok. I haven't actually put like any content about my podcast on TikTok. People literally just find me like me, click in my bio. And there's the podcast to go deeper. So that's converted really well for me, just being on the platform. But I've seen podcasters use it in a really strategic way, especially people leveraging video content for their podcast, put just like a 15 seconds snippet of really good value towards like you have to go finish the episode or you have to find out what happens. And those convert really, really well because the people that get hooked like, you know, go listen. And so yeah, it's better than a link and it's better than I think an image to because podcasting is like audio. It's listening. And so an image on Instagram converting to people listening is a farther jump than watching a video and being able to go watch even the same video on YouTube if you're posting your podcast on YouTube. So the connection's a lot tighter. Clearly Karen knows TikTok and knows how to create a media business that is multifaceted. And if that last bit lost you in the nitty gritty fear not this episode is here to help and take it down to the basics because I'm with you. I'll admit while I have been testing the waters recently with Instagram reels and while I watch plenty of tiktoks. I really don't have experience or knowledge about being a creator on the platform. But I do see tons of podcasters who are doing well on it and growing their show that way. So today we are going back to the basics so that you and I can understand tiktok from a creator's perspective. We're going to learn about the landscape of the app itself content that resonates with users and different strategies to increase your engagement and your following because even though Instagram reels are a similar format to tiktoks. Tiktok is an entirely different landscape. So what are the basics. What are the key things that you need to know as a podcaster in order to use tiktok to grow your audience without just making dancing videos and without spending hours and hours and hours. Figuring it all out. Cara is here to tell you after the break. Okay, so we're back here on Grow the Show with Cara Newhart a tiktok creator with half a million followers who is here to lay out the basics of tiktok for you so that you can understand if and if so how to use it when promoting your podcast. The first thing to understand is that tiktok is indeed different than Instagram, which is probably the platform that you're more familiar with the videos kind of look the same tiktoks and reels, but the audiences, those are slightly different Instagram skews a little bit older than tiktok. It's a little more like if you think of what Instagram used to be it's like pretty photos like beautiful amazing aesthetic moments. So Instagram I post things and everyone's like it's so pretty tiktok it's like, you know, all over the board. So tiktoks is a little bit younger. It's sort of like if the visual part of Instagram and the culture of Twitter like are combined on tiktok so it's very like quick moving more so than Instagram very vocal very opinionated and very like in real time responding to real events like trends where Instagram is a little more slow. So yeah, tiktok is very vocal, very feisty and younger and Instagram is very like I just want inspiration like they just want to look at pretty projects. It's like the work version of someone versus the night out version of someone is the same person, but they're reacting totally different. When this happens in real life, it isn't as fun as a night out. So you have to be mentally prepared. When you post on tiktok, it's like there's people coming out you from all directions like people love it. People hate it. People are commenting on your outfits. People don't like the color of paint you chose like everyone has an opinion on everything. And I think really like having videos going viral and seeing that play out. It's like there's nothing I could possibly do to make everyone happy like no matter what I do. There will be people that will want to rip me apart for it. So like why don't I just do what I like what I've realized is like if I'm generic, everyone's going to have like, yeah, we don't love or we don't hate her. And then I think for me, I realized like the comments weren't actually about me like when people come in hot like I hate this like they don't actually hate that they had a really bad day. They really want to be heard too. And like I feel like I'm even that way. Like on Instagram, I think I come off more as like girl next door like friendly. I'm going to teach you how to use tools and on tiktok like I'm a little sassy like there's a video of someone asking me what do you keep in your tool belt because it looks empty like as if I'm wearing it as a prop or an outfit. So my response video, I just dump it out on the floor and I'm just like, I don't know. But yeah, once you understand that it's not about you anymore. It's a culture thing over there. And if you like, I don't know, it's fun once you don't take it personally. And then what it is about is it's good engagement. Understanding this culture is going to help you make videos that are amazing and that actually convert people to listeners of your podcast. But what if you want to use tiktok, but don't want to keep up with every single trend on the app. Do I have to learn this week's tiktok dance to be successful. You don't have to dance. That's what it started as, you know, culture wise, but it has expanded so far beyond that. I think tiktok is a place where it's like the quick, quick, you know, highlights, like things you might want to buy podcasts. You might want to listen to books. You might want to read projects. You might want to do. And then it's like a springboard when people find something that resonates. They go investigate further. They go buy things on Amazon. They go listen to the full episode of the podcast. They go read the book. And so I think thinking of it as almost a commercial for what you're doing on a deeper level, like whether it's the life you're living, the content you're producing, the business you have. It's just a quick way to ever, for everyone to come together and be like, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm doing. And then you just find the people that you want to tune into. And then there's a beautiful algorithm in place to help you find them based on what you like. So yeah, it's, it's cool. So what Kara is saying here is that you have to establish your niche. And when you create a video in that niche, tiktoks algorithm will do a lot of the work for you by feeding your videos to people who already are liking other content in that niche. That's because part of what makes tiktok so successful as a social platform is the fact that for the most part users are randomly served videos by the apps algorithm. So for example, if you're making DIY videos for women like Kara does and you post it, the tiktok algorithm will serve it to women who have already been watching a lot of DIY videos. So it makes it pretty easy to find your niche pretty quickly. But what does a good tiktok video actually look like? There's content that I create more as like for people that don't know me like that could go viral and expose me to a new audience and that would convert really well. And then there's content I create to take my existing audience deeper. So people that don't know me might be like, what is this? Like was she? But I think when you target both, you're not always just creating content for new people. You're really also serving the people that are already there through content that's like giving them what you know they need. So what she's saying here is that some of your content is meant to strengthen your relationship with your current audience while other content won't go as deep, but that content is meant to go viral. So you can get in front of more people and those people will hopefully then consume the deeper content. If that sounds complicated, simply boil it down to these two things offer value and build community. I think it can be 15 seconds of actual good value that you take away something from it. But yet you let everyone know like there's way more like if you need more of this, it's available. People want to come to the platform and every video is doing something for them right then and there. And then if they need more, they'll go get it. So yeah, I think finding a way to do both is like magic. Okay, so we want to build community and offer value. But how do you know what stuff to post so that that stuff will be valuable? Where do you even start? I think the in progress stuff is where the magic is like it's where you have something that really resonates where your listeners, your followers can see themselves in the process. They have the before and they see your incredible after but really showing them the bridge that gets them there is what makes things resonate because if they can't connect to how you got from the before to the after, they don't think it's possible for them. And so it's like a tangible way to show that transformation and show them like this is possible for you to and this is how I did it and what about my story is applicable to your situation to get you there too. I have like six inches of space and there's like a lack of covered space. I'm like we're going to make a spice rack here. And so my initial plan was to like embed it in the wall, like take off the sheet rock, like have it like be kind of recessed into the wall. So I just took the wall off before you know to see what was back there. Definitely thought I was going to be able to like rip out the studs and recess it that ended up not being the case. So then I was left with a giant hole wall ahead to adapt and fixed. So it turned out amazing. But yeah, definitely not according to plan. But yeah, TikTok loved it. Anything controversial where everyone gets to weigh in is like good content. And then as that resonates and you know how to do that. Then you can add all the bells and whistles and make sure you're lighting is good and you look amazing. Speaking of bells and whistles, where does editing come into play here? This is video after all. I prefer to not edit in the actual apps for many reasons because you lose drafts on the app. You can get stuck with watermarks and logos. So I prefer to shoot and edit outside of the apps and then put it in. So I use an app called in shot. It's like $15 a year. It's like the best dollar a month I've ever spent ever. It has lots of features that you can add text overlay. It has like templates for the size of shot you need. You can shoot on your phone. You can shoot through Instagram stories. So yeah, that's how I shoot things. And then I really like to plan my video ahead of time. All right, but what does planning a video actually look like? So for the most part short from video, you need like a three second hook. Like people within the first three seconds need to know why you're there and what they could potentially get. So whether it's a question or you see a lot of people like, you need to stop. To hook them and be like, wait, what do I need? I guess I should stop. Tell me more. So a hook showing your face is preferable because I think short from video really resonates when there's a personality and that like friend kind of vibe behind it. So on TikTok, you have people sitting in their cars, just filming themselves sitting in their cars. And it's very raw. It's very authentic. And so the beauty of it is that you don't need to have a polished, you know, video production thing. Like you just hold your iPhone up and talk to it and cut out the best 15 seconds. It can be as easy as that. And then there's obviously like the trending songs to spark ideas. If you do want to like point to text, you're uncomfortable first. Like get started somehow. But yeah, I would say the sooner you can get to talking to your audience directly through the camera with a hook with really good value, the better, the better your content will resonate. There is one thing, however, that is almost guaranteed to not resonate with your audience. TikTok is sort of this reaction to the rest of social media where it's like all the brands were on there, like just sales pitch all day every day, whether it's ads or just talking about, here's what we have go buy, go shop. TikTok, it's like you follow people and go consume like their content that you feel like are your friend or that offered you something of value. So TikTok, people are too hostile to really just be like, new episode, everyone will like rip you apart and be like, they're like, what a waste of my time. Like, why did I watch this video? Like, I mean, you can try it. People will let you know either it won't resonate or people will come for you. And then you know, it's a change. I mean, it's not that you can't talk about your podcast. I've just chosen not to because I have so much other content to post through projects and brand campaigns. But yeah, absolutely like, talk about your podcast, but not in a way that it's like, go listen in a way that it's like, this is a really valuable conversation I had. Here's a really good thing that will be helpful to you right now. And if you want more, here's where to get it. The best part about this is that you don't have to worry about including everything in your videos. You actually don't have time for that. TikTok, because you had just swipe, swipe, swipe, you have to hook people faster in the videos need to be shorter. I even sometimes go shorter than 15 seconds, depending on what I'm showing. It's like, people want a little nugget and then everyone asks questions. And you can actually reply to comments with the video. The comments is really important because people tend to follow, especially on TikTok, if they know you're going to be there replying to them. Because the whole point of being in the comments is obviously saying what you want to say about the video, but it's also like there's people there asking questions. So instead of going to ask Google, you now can like kind of like pull the audience like you leave a comment. Other random people show up and start replying and then the creator can also help you. So it's like a more personalized form of Google. So the more time you're actually spending engaging with your audience answering questions, that's going to get them to want to go deeper with you. And stay with you versus just kind of trying to hit those viral videos and have the vanity metrics like so I keep things short. I wait to see what people want to know about and then I make follow up videos replying to them. So it looks like you're engaging with your community. You're there present, replying to what they want to hear about. And then you know what content to make. So you're not like starting from scratch. Yeah. What's so crazy about that is I got to think it's other than maybe Twitter, the first platform where just like responding to a comment, the comment response can go viral. Like the way that you make it just responding to a comment on your video goes viral. It's crazy. Yes, it is. It's really wild. Some of the best videos have been responses. Is there a target like frequency of posting? Like, are there any rules there? Yeah. Yeah. I think TikTok's probably like once a day. So I've been slacking. I've not been on there once a day. But frequency of being there, like just showing that you're there is important because it shows people that are following you. Like, they're going to show up and reply to comments and continue the conversation. And I can tune in and get fresh content versus like Instagram. Or it used to be just a feed of photos you could scroll through even if the person's not there. The content and the value is it's like TikTok is very timely. So people know that you're showing up. You're applying to things. So I would start with two to three times a week. If you're really new and you really don't have time. But getting up to every day, I think is kind of where the magic is. Now, a lot of the fundamentals Kara is sharing here also do apply to Instagram reels. The video tactics are basically the same. So if you want, you could totally apply everything that you've heard here on Instagram instead of TikTok. But what if you're someone who's starting from scratch on both? Should you start with TikTok or Instagram? I would say TikTok first because I think you're going to get the best feedback. And I don't know, it's like faster moving. And the trends a lot of times I see start on TikTok and then like three or four months later are on Instagram. So I think definitely that's where things happen first where you'll be like in the know. And then I think, you know, if you're really new and you don't have that much video content, you just use the same video and you post both places. And you see what happens because until you hone that audience and you know what they want, you don't know how to tweak the video anyway. So just use the same one video post both places and then, you know, thinking they're like, what is a person watching this going to think is the first three seconds going to bore them. Is this going to move fast? Like is this clip too fast? And so if you can like step away from the video, come back and watch it or have someone else watch it. You get that like user feedback because especially if you haven't made a video before, you can be just like impressed that you tried and you made a video, which of course you should be like you're doing amazing. But yeah, thinking about how the video is going to look, what it's going to accomplish and what people might think or feel while they're watching is going to help you make better content. So what parting words do you have for someone who is about to go and put out their first TikTok video? What's the, what's the thing? Do it scared. You're going to feel like an idiot. You're going to feel weird. It's going to be hard and challenging to put yourself out there and be vulnerable at first. But do it scared and do it messy because you're literally only going to get better by doing it and getting the feedback. So it's that creative process of just starting getting something out there because honestly, you can't have the real strategy you need unless you have something to critique. So if you're just sitting back and thinking about all the ways you should do it, it's never going to help you unless you actually have videos out there circulating people commenting or not commenting. So you know how to adapt and do them better. So your first video will flap or you will feel weird recording it or it will be really bad. But just let that be part of the process. Once you accept that, you're free to adjust and tweak and then make really good content eventually. Just start. That is the key here. Just like with podcasting really. So there you have it. Kara has just shared the basics of what you need to know in order to at least get started on TikTok. And now hopefully you have a better idea of whether or not now is the time for you to give TikTok a shot. Remember TikTok and overall short form videos. So reels and YouTube shorts. They're here to stay. So you're going to have to do it eventually. Why not start now. But I get it. You still might be unsure about whether now actually is the right time to start making short form video content. And so if that's the case, we'd be happy to weigh in and actually help you figure it out. And when I say we, I mean myself and the 2000 other growth minded podcasters in the Grow the Show Facebook group. So if you'd like to get perspective from other podcasters, many of whom are a couple chapters ahead of you, hit the link in the show notes, join the group and post your question asking for feedback. You can also post your short form videos there too. We'd be happy to help you implement what you've learned. The link to the Grow the Show Facebook group is in the show notes. Grow the Show is a Q9 production. This episode was produced and written by myself and Catherine Nails with post production by Jeremy Bishop. And of course, a very special thanks to Grow the Show student, Kara Newhart. For Grow the Show, my name is Kevin Schmidland. I'll see you next week.