How I Took GTS to $500K in One Year

This is Grow the Show, the podcast to help you grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Schmidland, I am a podcaster and podcast coach, and my mission is to help you the independent podcaster to grow your audience and monetize now so that you can have a thriving podcast business. Now normally on this podcast, what we do is we explore one really specific tactic, strategy or framework that you can implement ideally within a week and start to see results on within 30 days. We aim to do that with every episode of this podcast and we have hopefully achieved that with all 30 plus episodes of the show thus far. This episode is going to be a little bit different and it's going to be a bit of a recap on how I got to where I am now and it's also going to be a bit of a reset because I've heard from listeners of the show that while the really specific frameworks are awesome and actionable, what you're looking for support on is the overall strategy, right? So based on where I am right here and now, how can I start to grow and or monetize my podcast in a way that starts to move the needle, right? And so that's what this episode is going to be here to help with. So what I'm going to do is number one, briefly tell the story of how I got where I am today. I'm going to tell you how I took my very first podcast, which is called Philly Who, past 100,000 dollars monetized and 100,000 downloads in its first year and a half roughly. And then I'll share how I took this podcast, grow the show from zero to more than 500,000 dollars in revenue in only 14 months with only 30 episodes and with only about 40,000 downloads total. And then I'm going to share my four step framework for how to grow and monetize a thriving podcast business. And those four steps should help you map out where you are now and what you can do today to get to the next step, get to the next level. And this is the overall framework that I use to teach, you know, my 150 plus students in the Grow the Show podcast accelerator, as well as you listening here on the podcast. Now, before I get into the storytelling and the teaching, just a couple of housekeeping things. There's really two types of podcasters that I think will actually benefit from what I'm about to share. Number one, business owners who have already launched a podcast and that podcast supports your product or service and you want your podcast to grow your audience, generate more revenue for that product or service, build yourself a world class network and achieve you authority in your niche. This works particularly well for coaches, consultants, agency owners, authors, speakers, influencers and other online business owners. But it can also certainly work for nonprofit owners, marketers, team members of companies as well as even, you know, brick and mortar folks. The other class of podcaster that I think will really, really benefit from this framework and from learning from me are hungry, talented podcasters who show is a side hustle today. But you are ready now and next year and for the coming years to really commit, do the work and convert your podcast to a business right now, right now, right here and now, not someday, right now. This stuff that I'm about to teach you though is unfortunately not going to work for a set of podcasters, some of whom I know listen to the show and I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But I'd rather make you aware of this right here and now before you go and, you know, try all of this stuff and not see any results and maybe waste your time. And so those podcasters where the people that this is not going to work for are the following people, hobby podcasters who do not want to treat their podcasts like a business right here and now, if that is you, I love that. I love that. If you're somebody who is just aiming to have a show where you just have some beers and talk about anything you want with your friends, that's awesome. But that is not a show that can turn into a podcast business without you being like celebrity level talent, right, like an actor or a comedian or something like that or just insanely, insanely personable and talented. You might be that. And if I'm offending you by saying that, then please take that as a challenge, right? But a hobby podcast is not going to convert itself into a business. It's just not how it works. It doesn't just grow and quote unquote blow up and take off and suddenly, you know, turn itself into a business. That's not how that's not how it works. That's not how businesses grow. This stuff is not going to work for podcasters who don't care about making money. You can use the growth techniques awesome and I'm pumped to have you in the community. But obviously you probably won't even listen to the monetization pieces anyway. This is also not for podcasters who are afraid of making money. Now if you are afraid to ask for what you're worth, if you're afraid to sell and you're afraid to ask for money, this stuff is not going to work for you. You have to get past that fear or else you're not going to be able to have a growing thriving business of any type. I used to be in that camp and I was able to get past that. I would love to help you get past that. But that will be a blocker to you as you grow, as you aim to grow and monetize your podcast. Everybody who believes that podcasting should be free or easy or you should not spend any money on this thing. This is not going to work for you. That's not how businesses work. You have to spend money on a business. You have to invest in order to make money. I'm not saying you have to invest with me, but you do have to invest in technology and help and knowledge and guidance and hosting and software and all these other things. So if you're somebody who's complaining about your $30 per month Libsyn membership, I'm sorry, but you're just not going to make money that way. You have the wrong mindset. Anybody who, any podcaster who believes that you're, you know, you can kind of just work on your podcast when it's convenient and when you feel like it and that by doing that, the podcast is going to blow up and rescue you from your day job. That's not going to happen either. You are going to have to work on your show at times when you don't feel like it and when it's inconvenient to you. If you're a podcaster who is not willing to put in the work to get better at your craft, this is oftentimes hobbyists and entrepreneurs. I hear plenty of entrepreneurs who are like, I am too busy for this. I just want to have, you know, show up for an hour long interview, have the conversation and let somebody else do all the work. That's totally fine, but I'm telling you, you're not going to have a hit show that way and a podcast that grows and that is monetized must be a good show. And you just having a conversation with people is not a good show. It's just not going to be a good show. And so if that's you, if you're somebody who's not willing to put in the work to get better at this craft, then you should probably just stop, man, because you're going to waste everybody's time. If you're a business owner who takes pride in having 35 different projects and then eventually it doesn't work, and you give up on them because you found something better or shinier or, ah, yeah, that wasn't passionate about that. So if you are someone that has 45 projects going, this podcast, your podcast includes one of them, you should either kill all of those projects or kill your podcast now because you're wasting your time. And it would be much better for you to give your all to something than to give virtually nothing to everything, right? And then finally, this is not going to work for somebody who's looking for passive income. If that's you, I don't think you're listening to this show, but there's no such thing in my opinion as passive income, please don't believe that podcasting is passive income. So if you are one of those two podcasters that I mentioned earlier, what you're going to learn in this episode is how to describe your show so that potential listeners become obsessed before they even press play. You're going to learn how to define your podcast audience in a way that makes it really, really simple to grow that audience. You're going to learn how to get podcast listeners via social media totally for free, spending only 15 to 30 minutes a day. You're going to learn how to land any dream guests you want in a matter of days without sending tons of email pitches. You're going to learn how to monetize the podcast insanely, profitably regardless of audience size. You're going to learn how to convert casual listeners into monetized, raving fans in a matter of weeks, if not days, and you're going to learn how to get all of the annoying grunt work like editing and publishing and social media content off of your plate so that you can spend more of your time on the fun stuff, the stuff that you like, the stuff that you like, and the stuff that actually moves the needle gets you more growth and gets you more cash, right? And so before I dive into the actual framework of how to do all those things, I know those are some pretty, pretty big promises and you are pumped and rip-roar and ready to go. But real quick, let me just tell the quick story of how I, how I learned what I'm about to teach you and how I got to where I am today. And so it started for me as a podcaster in 2018. How did the idea first show about my hometown of Philadelphia and much like most of us use the internet to learn the basics of podcasting of how to launch a podcast, right? And so I did that, I launched the show and got some early success. The show got 250 downloads on its very, very first day and so in my mind, I was off to the races. And so I actually at that moment gave two months notice to my full-time day job as a software developer and said, I'm this incredible podcast entrepreneur. Let's go. I had built up some savings and so I ditched the day job. Well, that was super fun at first. I got to spend the summer of 2018 running around the city of Philadelphia interviewing people who I thought I had no business talking to and creating an amazing podcast. And at first, it went super well. The show got some buzz early on, got, you know, started to grow with each and every episode and I was having a blast. But then very, very, very quickly a couple of months after I left my full-time gig. The show wasn't monetized at all and it actually growth stopped. I hit a threshold and growth actually started to, the show actually started to shrink. I started seeing downloads going down every episode and I didn't understand why that was because I was doing everything that the internet told me about how to grow and monetize, which you've probably heard as well. Like to grow your audience, you have to ask your guests to post on social media or you have to ask your audience to spread the word or you should post on social media or you should post in Facebook groups and subreddits. And so I was doing all of those things and the show was actually shrinking and it wasn't growing at all, which was weird because that's conventional wisdom. That's what everyone says to do, right? And then when I would go into podcast Facebook groups, I'd ask people, hey, what do I do to grow and monetize? How do I get the show to be bigger? And what people usually answer with is, you should just think about why you're doing this. You should not be in it for the money and I'm like, well, I'm in it for the money. I'm just going to say that I want to make some money doing this, right? So that I was like, okay, these people are just trying to like change my expectations instead of actually helping me so clearly they don't know what to do. And so I was just stuck in this loop trying to throw different things against the wall as my download numbers kept going down week after week after week. I was spending so much time making the show, like literally 40 plus hours a week on the podcast, it had replaced my full time job. So all of you who are like, man, if I could just work on this full time, it would be set. Well, that's probably not true because that's what I did. And then I found out I did that and I quit my day job so that I could turn my show into a business. And then I just spent 60 hours doing the wrong things instead of six hours a week doing the wrong things. And so after, you know, three, four, five months of the show not growing and my savings dwindling, I found myself at a place where I was out of cash and I had no idea what to do. My back was up against the wall. And so I came this close to calling up my old boss and asking for my job back. But I had made such a huge stink about my podcast success when I launched the show and when I left my full time job, I just really didn't want to publicly, you know, go back to that with my tail between my legs and tell everyone that I had failed. So I actually, this is ill advised, but I bought a little extra time by going into credit card debt and I put my show Philly, who on hold. And I said, I'm going to stop publishing episodes until I can figure this out. And so I gave myself six weeks. I said, I'm going to live off of credit cards for six weeks and I'm going to spend those six weeks learning how to actually do this, right? Learning how to actually grow and monetize a podcast. And so over the course of that six weeks, I did a bunch of stuff. I took one weekend, walked all around the city of Philadelphia and the whole time listened to every single podcast that was in the top 100 that weekend. I listened to a hundred podcast episodes in one weekend. And what I was listening for was the patterns, like what are these shows actually doing to grow and monetize? How are they, you know, making money? How are they engaging with their audience? How does it seem that they're getting new listeners to this show? How are they talking to their audience? What is their content shaped like? I noticed a bunch of patterns that I hadn't really thought of before. I also read a bunch of books, went to a couple conferences. I got in touch with some podcasting and interviewing legends like Gairaz and Cal Fussman to ask them advice. I took online courses that actually work about online marketing. And what I learned is that everything that the internet teaches you for free about how to grow and monetize don't actually work. That makes sense, right? Because if they did work, we would all have growing, monetizing, thriving podcast businesses. But they don't work. And I was like, wow, okay, so maybe it's not me. Maybe it's the strategies that I've picked up from Googling how to grow podcasts that aren't working. And so I learned all these new strategies and put them to the test. I brought Philly Hu back. And within a year, I was able to take that show past 100,000 downloads and 100,000 dollars monetized. And it was monetized via a membership, like a Patreon membership via paid ads via live events, which the live events were the real kicker. I would make like four or five grand per night at the live events, merge sales, several different other things. I sold podcast production services, there are a million different things. And so for a while, that was it. Like I kind of had made it. And I was, I spent my time, you know, I was finally making money. I started paying off my credit card debt and I was able to pay my mortgage and go to the beach and I love music festivals. So I went to Coachella in 2019 and that was all money that I made podcasting. And so for a time in late 2019, I then started consulting for big media companies about how they can start and grow and monetize great shows. Those companies have included I heart radio and Comcast NBC universal and a religion of sports, which is Tom Brady and Michael Strahan and Gotham Chopra's media company among several others. And then after about six months of doing that consulting work for bigger media companies, I started to work with independent podcasters like you because I had tons of business owners and other podcasters who were like, Hey, man, how did you get Philly who to this point? Because it's a small audience, right? Like just just the city of Philadelphia. How the heck do you get that show past 100k dollars in downloads, right? When so many other shows that supposedly could have much larger audiences can't get 200 downloads per episode. So I started helping them individually and I'll just be honest, that was way, way more fun to help other independent podcasters like me. And so I said, cool, I'm going to pivot my business to doing this to helping independent podcasters. And it was early 2019, I sorry, late 2019 early 2020 that grow the show was born. And that's where I started doing this. And so at that point, it's early to mid 2020, I tend to take a few months when I have a new idea to like get the lay of the land and you know, do some learning. So I took an online course about scaling a business that's called scaling with systems highly, highly recommended. And so I decided to when it comes to grow the show, launch the accelerator, which is my online program to help podcasters grow and monetize, I decided to launch the accelerator before launching this free podcast. So the accelerator actually launched in July of 2020. And this podcast launched in October of 2020. Now in retrospect, I actually now knowing now what I, you know, knowing what I know now, I wish I actually done would have done the opposite or at least launched the podcast at around the same time that I was launching the accelerator and and here's why. So I launched the grow the show accelerator program in June of 2020. And within its first three weeks, I got three clients and the program is not cheap. It is not something that, you know, it's not a, you know, $1,000 course. It costs more than that because it's not just a course. It includes, you know, tons like a ridiculous amount of coaching for me at the time. It included, you know, 12 episodes of editing done by my company. It includes a massive course and tons of support in a community and a bunch of free software that you otherwise would have to pay for and a bunch of other stuff. That's what's in the program. And so I launched that and within the first three weeks, got three clients and was like, cool, this is scaling pretty fast already, right? Well, the thing about it is in the subsequent four months. So July, August, September, October and November. So it's more than four months of 2020. I barely got any new clients. I was on eight to 12 calls every single day with podcasters, potential, you know, clients for the Grow the Show Accelerator and every single day and none of them wanted to join at all. They all said no. So I for like five months was on, she's about 40 to 60 calls, sales calls for the accelerator per week and all, but four of them said no and a lot of them were really mean. And honestly, I don't blame these people for not joining because I didn't really have, I had no online presence behind Grow the Show. I didn't have this podcast, right? There was literally nothing online about me helping other podcasters. There was stuff about the Philly show, but nothing about this. So it was in, so you know, I have, I had Philly who, which was doing well. I was making good money with that. But then I, you know, I launched this podcast coaching business, which in the first three weeks did really well, but likewise, again, early success turned into, you know, four to five to six months of massive struggle. And that struggle ended when I launched this podcast, which is Grow the Show. And so this podcast launched on October 12, 2020, it's my mom's birthday. And since then it has amassed over 40,000 downloads with only 30 episodes and it has generated more than $500,000 for my coaching business, right? And it's, by the way, using the same framework that I used for Grow the Show and that I'm teaching my other podcasters. So it's kind of funny because I launched this podcasting coaching program in July and the program itself was good. Like my clients got some really, really cool results instantly, but I didn't know how to scale a coaching business. I knew how to scale a podcast, but I didn't know how to scale a coaching business. So what finally in October, 2020, after like five months of hell, where I was just on all these sales calls all day and just really truly like I, like the July of 2020, I was getting tested for sleep apnea because I was so miserable. And I thought I had sleep apnea, but it turns out I was just so stressed that I wasn't sleeping. And so what ended that stress was this podcast was launching this show. So finally, in October, 2020, I turned to what I know best, which is how to grow and monetize a podcast and have that podcast, you know, supported thriving business. So that's what I'm going to teach you today. And I'm going to teach you the same formula that I used for both shows. The first show is an entertainment show that was monetized via paid ads and via a Patreon membership. And that got to six figures per year. And the second show, this podcast, is monetized via a accelerator program, so a product or service. And since October 12, 2020, the show has generated more than half a million dollars for me in my coaching business with only 30 episodes. And it's gotten me, you know, it's gotten 150 clients into the program and that number's growing every, every day. And I now have a team of five people working here at Grow the Show and we've got this massive community. So if you're listening, you're either in the program or you're not, but that's cool because you are in this community. And so thankfully, this podcast has brought you to me and hopefully I've been able to provide you some value as well. But how did I do it? All right. And without further ado, how the heck did I manage to use a podcast to rescue me from a terrible scenario twice over the course of two years and then grow that podcast into a thriving business that brought me the life that I had dreamed of? And so I actually used the same formula for the both shows. And again, the prerequisite, what you're about to hear is going to make this sound easy. It is not easy. It is simple. There's a huge difference making it simple makes it easier, but it is still hard work. Both of these shows have spent time as my full-time job. I actually don't make the Philadelphia show anymore because me and Catherine and the entire team have gone all in on this podcast and on Grow the Show. But both Philly Ho and Grow the Show have spent time as my full-time job. And I know that's a lot of people's dream. But let me tell you, when podcasting is your full-time job, it feels like a job. It is your job. You have to do it when you don't feel like doing it, right? You are not going to get to a six-figure podcast that allows you to work 20 hours a week and makes you six-figures by spending two hours a week on the podcast. That's not how it works. And so if you believe that you can have a massively popular podcast that cranks out cash without you putting in the work without you putting in work when you don't feel like putting in the work and without sacrificing some stuff, right? Some weekends, some nights, maybe even some time with your family, please stop listening now because what you're about to hear is only going to strengthen that belief and make you believe that that's possible and it's not true. It's not possible. You are going to have to work when you don't feel like it. There are going to be times when it freaking sucks and you hate podcasting, but I'll tell you, if you're able to power through that and you're able to, you know, build a business around the show because clearly you're passionate about podcasting. You wouldn't be listening to me right now if you weren't. It is an incredible, incredible place. Oh my goodness. I love so much. Philly who grow the show, I am so, so, so, so, so freaking grateful to be able to do what I do and spend my time podcasting and coaching other podcasters. As much as some days I hate it, overall, I absolutely love it and I wouldn't spend my life doing anything else. So how the heck can you do it, right? So I'm assuming if you've gotten to this point that you are either a business owner with a podcast who wants all the things that I promised earlier or you are a pod side hustling podcaster who understands that you are going to have to hustle and make this thing happen, right? And that it's not, it's not going to turn itself into a full time business. You have to do that. If you're down with that, then let's begin. And so here is the framework that I use to grow both of these podcasts into six figures. One of them will reach this one, will reach seven figures at this rate by July 2022. But you know, if my growth plan goes to plan, it'll happen sooner than that. I will be able to say I am a seven figure podcaster very, very soon. And so this framework has brought me to both of those places and it is here to bring you where you want to go as well. And so here is my four step framework to a six figure podcast business that doubles your audience every three months and doesn't burn you out, okay? Tip number one, if you've heard any episodes of this podcast before, you will be very familiar with this and it is this, be more specific. Everybody skips this because it's uncomfortable. And some people get lost in this. So you don't want to spend too much time on this. I'd say give it like one to two weeks max, but you need to be more specific about your audience and the outcome that your show should provide. So you need to define your audience in terms of blanks who blank and blank. What does that mean? You need to decide the three characteristics that every member of your audience must have. Your show is only for people that have those three characteristics. My blanks who blank and blank statement for this podcast is podcasting entrepreneurs who have already launched and who are struggling in their current growth threshold, right? Now you'll notice that there's a very good chance that you are not one of those people. And that's okay, right? But that is who this podcast is meant for. You can still get massive value from it, but that is who I target this podcast towards. If I targeted this podcast to any podcaster or any entrepreneur or virtually anyone who wants to grow their audience, it wouldn't work. The reason why this podcast works is because it achieves resonance with my blanks who blank and blank audience, right? And so you have to be more specific with your audience. So let me ask you a question. You want to have a large audience, right? You want your audience to be big. Me too. You really do because we want this when the time comes for us to define our podcast and define our audience, what we usually do is we define our show and our audience in broad terms, right? And we do this because we think it will make our show appeal to more people, right? And on the surface, that's intuitive. That makes sense, right? If I make the audience as large as possible, my audience will be as large as possible. But in reality, what that does is it makes your job of growing that audience much, much harder, right? So the first question that I ask podcasters when I speak to them, I still to this day meet and get to know dozens and dozens of podcasters a week, sometimes a day. And the first question I almost always ask is, who is your listener? And the answers are just always super vague, right? So people say my listeners are millennials or boomers or, you know, Gen X or Gen Z. My listeners are women, my listeners are 25 to 40 year old men, my listeners are entrepreneurs or my listeners are anybody interested in art or musicians or parents. These are all too broad. There's too many people that check that box, right? The audience, the potential audience size is too big. And the reason why that doesn't work is because there's too many different people who have entirely different lives who fit into that audience. And so there's no way that your show can resonate for all those people. So the same thing is true when I ask you, what is your show about? What is your podcast about? I also get vague answers. And when I hear them, I'm like, man, that's why your show isn't growing. Like we can talk strategies till we're blue in the face. It's not about optimizing your growth. It's this foundational work that's tripping you up. You have to be more specific. There's too many topics for you to cover. And there's too many other shows that are also trying to be that broad, right? Not only are we vague about what our show topic is, but we're also vague about what the show actually is. Like what are we doing in this on these episodes? People say, my podcast tells stories. My podcast gives tools and tricks, tips and tricks is what drives me nuts. My podcast has tough conversations. My podcast features different perspectives. My podcast interviews all kinds of successful people from all walks of life. My podcast gives my unique take. It may be hard for you to believe, but the more broad your show is, the more broad your audience definition is, the more broad you talk. Talk about your show's topic and concept, the harder it will be for you to grow and monetize. It makes it more difficult, not less difficult, because your show does not resonate with anybody. It's too watered down. It's too broad. You're trying to appeal to too many people and in doing so, you appeal to nobody. Nobody hears their truth in what you're talking about, right? You want them to discover your show. Here what you're saying and be like, oh my gosh, it's like they're listening to my phone calls. Hopefully you felt like that with me, right? Instead, we have to be incredibly specific about what our show is, who it's for and what we're talking about, right? So step one is to be incredibly specific about your audience, your show's concept or premise, and the outcome that your show aims to provide to your listeners. And so if you need help with any of those three things, here's a couple of tools and tricks to help you get there. So for your audience, if you need help defining your audience, try to define your audience in a way that's so specific that you can define it as blanks, who blank and blank, meaning every listener of your show must have three characteristics. This podcast is only for people who blank and who blank and who blank. So for, grow the show, it's for podcasting entrepreneurs, number one, who have already launched their show, number two, and who are currently stuck at their growth level, right? Who have hit a threshold, number three, I do not point this program. I do not make this podcast for podcasters who aren't entrepreneurs. I do not make this podcast for podcasters who haven't launched yet, and I don't make this podcast for podcasters who are killing it and are just getting, you know, just their show is blowing up and they're not struggling with growth at all. Now you might notice you might not be a podcasting entrepreneur who has already launched and who is stuck and you're getting value from this show, right? So, and I'll tell you right now, if you are one of those people that there's tons of other people who listen to this show, who are not, who are not a blank, who blank and blank. So that tells you that even though I am focusing everything that I do on this podcast, on serving my blanks, who blank and blank, podcasting entrepreneurs who have already launched and are struggling at their current growth level, I focus so hard and I crush it so good for those people that I collect other people who aren't the exact blank, who blank and blank, but they still get value from my content. If I tried to make it so that I collect anybody who is ever interested in a podcast, hobbyist or entrepreneur or anyone who wants to grow any kind of audience, I would serve nobody because I would not achieve resonance with anybody and this show would fail, right? So every listener of your show must have the same three characteristics. You must assume that they have that and speak to them as if they have that and I'm telling you, your audience is going to grow way faster and you will get people who aren't those people in your audience. It's super, super counterintuitive, but by focusing on one group of people, you will serve multiple groups of people. If you focus on multiple groups of people, you will serve nobody, all right? So that's your audience. For your show concept, we have the famous 10 word description as created by Eric Newsom. By the way, shout out to you, Volyarden, who introduced me to the blank, who blank and blank exercise. Eric Newsom episode number two of this podcast introduced us to the 10 word description exercise, where you can describe your podcast premise in 10 words or less without using any vague or marketing language that doesn't mean anything and that in a way that describes no other podcast in the world, right? Now, this exercise, if you want to go in detail, listen to episode two of this podcast with Eric Newsom. He explains it really well. He also maps it out in his incredible book, Make Noise. The link to that is in the show notes that I literally send that book to every single person who joins my accelerator program. I have bought that book 150 times in the past year. So you're welcome, Eric. And thank you for being on the show. And by the way, Eric also sometimes guest coaches, folks in the girl-to-show accelerator, which is a blast. If you want to learn more about that exercise, hop into episode two of this show. And just a quick heads up that the biggest mistake that people make with the 10 word description exercise is this. They prioritize 10 words rather than prioritize making the description specific, making it completely unique. There's no other podcast in the world and not using any language that is vague. They instead focus on making it 10 words, right? So you can break the 10 word rule for the love of everything. I don't care if it's 11 words. You need to make the description as short as you possibly can. Make it describe no other podcast in the world, make it incredibly specific and not vague. And then you will be in business. So that's how to make your show really specific your show concept. And then you need to make specific why your show is valuable to the listener, right? So what are they going to get out of it? What is the outcome? What makes the stories amazing that you're telling? What are the tools and tricks that you're sharing going to do for them? What will they be able to do or have or achieve, right? Specifically, what makes the conversations that you're having tough? How are they different than all the other conversations that we have every day? And how will your listener be better off by hearing those tough conversations? What makes the perspectives that you're scaring different? How is your listener going to benefit from hearing perspectives that are different than the ones that they're hearing every day? And what specifically makes these perspectives that you're sharing different than the ones that they hear? What makes your take unique? And you can't say because I'm willing to tell it how it is, I know BS, I'm just going to say what's on my mind. Everybody does that. You're not special. Tell me what makes you special. Tell me what makes yours take unique specifically. What combination of experiences or background do you have that make your opinion unique to nobody else in the world? You got to be able to say that and call it out. Your listeners are not going to figure that out for you. You have to tell them, right? Number one, be more specific. This is usually the number one thing that people need help with. And so I've talked about that one ad nauseam on this program. And so feel free to check out any other episode to dive into that and also join us in the free Grow the Show Facebook group for help with any one of those exercises. Step two, I've also talked about a lot here on this program and that is my flagship social media framework for how to grow an audience on social media. And that is step two. Step two is using social media the right way. So step one is being more specific with your audience and your show's concept and what outcome you want to provide to your listeners. If you get that right, then you can move on to step two, which is to use social media the right way. Today, you are using it the wrong way. This is how fame to grow the show student and a German cornic went from her podcast getting 1300 downloads per month and shrinking about one to 10% every single month. She implemented what I'm about to describe to you in July of 2020, stayed consistent with it for a year. And by July of 2021, her show had grown to more than 10,000 downloads per episode. She had 10Xed her show in one year just by implementing what I'm about to teach you, which is to use social media the right way instead of the wrong way. And if you want to learn more specifically of how she did that, there's an episode with Anna German cornic here on the feed just scroll down a little bit. So what is it though? How do I use social media the right way? Well, let me ask you a question. What are you doing today to get more listeners for your podcast? And I'm going to answer it for you because I know what you're doing. You're posting on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and TikTok. You're publishing, right? You're posting audiograms and maybe some video clips of an interesting clip and worst off, which is what everyone does, but it totally doesn't work at all and you should stop doing it right now. You post a headshot of your guest. The people who follow you on social media have no idea who that person is. They don't want to see somebody a stranger's professional headshot. That's not going to help you at all. But that's what people do. And so that's what you're doing. You're posting that stuff on your personal social media handles and also on your podcast social media. And it doesn't get any engagement. It isn't seen by anybody. Nobody comments yet. You still do it every single week. Why? Your social account is not growing at all. So those posts that you're putting that those those posts that you're making weekend and week out aren't reaching anybody new, right? But you're still doing it. At the same time, you're begging every guest that comes on your podcast for them to post on their social media. Will you please post this headshot of yourself that you've already posted on your Instagram feed 40 times and tell people to go listen to my podcast with you every once in a while a guest agrees to do that. And when they do, it does nothing. But most of the time the guests say they'll do it and they don't. And even when they do, it doesn't work at all, right? Yet we do that every episode and think that that's how you grow a podcast. You also ask your audience to spread the word, right? Everyone, please rate and review tell one friend. But guess what? What audience? There's no audience. Who are they going to who's going to tell friends, right? And the other thing that you're doing is you're joining Facebook groups. You immediately join and post a link to your podcast. This is the sin. Nobody comments. Nobody likes it. Nobody engages with it. You spam countless Facebook groups today. They hate you. You get kicked out of all of them for being self-promote. And then you next week try 30 more Facebook groups. And you keep doing this week after week and your download numbers don't go up. You know the definition of insanity is doing the same activity over and over and expecting a different result. But listen, I'm sorry to tear into you like that. Hopefully you're a little traumatized by that because you got to stop doing all that stuff. But guess what? It's not your fault. The problem is while you're doing all these things that you've been taught to do by the internet, you're hoping you're grinding it out. You're burning it yourself out. You're burning the midnight oil, night oil to grow, hopefully grow and monetize this podcast. And you're hoping for your big break, right? Maybe I'll get a shout out in a key newsletter or on social media or in the media or like somebody a celebrity is going to spread the word about my show. And then that'll hit the inflection point in the podcast. We'll hit the Apple podcast charts and then listeners and we'll start flocking and then sponsors are going to start hitting me up and that's just not how it works. The other thing that everyone thinks is going to happen is they're going to land that one special celebrity guest. Ooh, just when I have so and so one day it'll be the perfect moment and they'll be on the show and then suddenly everyone will know I'm credible and the show is going to blow up overnight and then I'll make it an every episode will grow from there. That's just not how it works. Have you ever had those thoughts? I don't blame you. So have I. It's not your fault. It's all these people who are teaching you the wrong ways, right? That stuff doesn't happen. That's not how it works. And so just posting, posting, posting, publishing, publishing, publishing, nothing's going to happen. No matter how good your content is, if you build it, nobody will show up. And so here's what actually works. Here's what actually will grow your audience for free using social media the right way. And that is my framework, which is called targeted daily engagement. So there's three things that you can do on social media at any given moment. You can consume, right? So you can scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And that is what the vast majority of human beings do four to eight hours a day. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, obviously doesn't grow your podcast. It's something you should all stop. We should all stop doing, except maybe a little bit. I allow myself to scroll TikTok for 30 minutes every Saturday. It's super fun. But scrolling is not going to grow your podcast. The other, the second thing you can do on social media is posting. And that's what you are currently doing on social media to grow your podcast. Post, post, post, post. New episode now, link in bio. So excited to share this conversation I had. That's what you're doing every week. How's that working for you? Doing nothing, right? Publishing does not posting. Post, post, post. It does nothing to grow your audience. What does work is the third thing that you can do on social media, which is not consuming or posting, but engaging, being social on social media. So to find and get more incredibly specific listeners, all you have to do is go and engage with them on social media, right? Go where they go online and engage with them. That includes Facebook groups, subreddits, Instagram hashtags, linked in search. You can just DM people in the comments of the social media posts of the people that you admire, right? So there's dream guests of yours that have already, have already gathered your dream audience, right? The people who are 10 chapters ahead, they've already written books, they've already gotten thousands of followers. Every time they post, there's tons of people in the comments who would probably love your podcast. You can do this in real life at conferences. You can do this in the comments of your posts when you get comments. But Kevin, you said going to Facebook groups doesn't work to grow your podcast. No, I said posting in Facebook groups doesn't work. Everybody hates you when you post about your podcasts in Facebook groups. And every single day, I pay somebody to remove, just instantly kick out literally four to 10 people in the grow the show free Facebook group who join up and just post about their podcast. And we don't even warn them. We kick them out immediately because everyone hates that posting does not work in Facebook group. The wrong way to use social media is to promote. If you are getting on there with the purpose, well, the wrong way to use social media is to promote. Nobody wants you to promote your crap on social media. Everybody hates it. Nobody wants your ads. They hate that they are subject to ads on social media to begin with. They did not follow you on social media to see your ads. The right way to use social media is to participate. Do not promote, participate by participating. You promote yourself. Look at any brands on TikTok right now. TikTok is blowing up with brands who are crushing it with totally free publicity. And they're not doing that by posting about their product. They're doing that by participating in TikTok trends and making jokes. That's how they're doing it. They don't promote. They participate. Again, this is how ADK and a dimmercornic went from 1300 downloads a month to over 10,000 downloads a month in one year by participating instead of promoting. And this doesn't stop with your future listeners, right? So 15 to 30 minutes every single day, you engage with your future listeners and you also should engage with your dream guests, right? The people that you want to have on your show and other podcasters in your niche because the quickest and most effective way to grow a podcast is to get your podcast featured on other podcast feeds. That's either by you being a guest on other podcasts or by collaborating with those other podcasters by sharing each other's podcast trailer or dropping entire episodes on each other's podcast feeds. A million download podcaster Gary aren't to was a guest on the show just a couple of weeks ago recently surpassed a million podcast downloads in only a year and a half. Message me on Facebook last week to tell me that he did his first feed drop where another podcast in his niche shared an entire episode of his show on their feed. And he beat his single day download record. He got more downloads that day than literally any other day. And he's already got a million downloads that works that strategy works. No matter where you are in your podcasting journey from zero to a billion downloads, that is how you get more podcast listeners the most bang for your buck. And so how do you get those podcasters to collaborate with you while you either pay them which are welcome to do and a lot of people do that or you make friends with them by engaging with them on social media. It's the same thing and it's the same way that you land dream guests whenever you want. Most people have a dream like five, 10, a hundred dream guests in mind and they say they're waiting for the perfect moment so that they can get the perfect email right. I'm going to get their email address and I'm going to send the perfect email pitch. And then they're going to say yes and they're going to be, you know, I'm going to make them an offer they can't refuse and they're going to be on my podcast and then my podcast is going to blow up. Guess what? All those people hate your cold emails. They hate getting emails and you're a podcaster, right? How many email pitches do you get every single day from people who are totally not a good fit for your podcast? When you cold email pitch your dream guests number one, they're going to have people and assistants who they pay to ignore you and not answer your email. And number two, they're not going to believe you that, you know, your cold pitch that you could be a great podcast guest. What you should do instead to land dream guests on your podcast is target a daily engagement. Engage with them every single day or at least a few times a week and become friends with them become internet friends with them. They're posting all the time. They want to engage with you. It is actually them. It is not their team. So that's the other thing. Everybody thinks that people who have, you know, thousands of followers, millions of followers that it's not them on social media that they hire someone to do it. It's just not true. Social media is literally the fastest way to reach anybody on this planet in the DMs on social media. That is how you do it. So in every case, how do I get more podcast listeners? DM them on social media. How do I get dream guests quicker? DM them on social media. How do I get other podcasts to share my podcasts on their feed or to have me as a guest on their show? DM them on social media. The key is to not cold DM them, but only DM them after doing some targeted daily engagement. So that's TDE. That's what you should be doing. That is how I have helped literally thousands of podcasters to get 25%, 50%, 100%, and I've even seen a thousand percent growth. Yes, it was a smaller show, but it's a fun number to share. I've seen a thousand percent growth on a podcast with someone who's doing TDE. And this works for a virtually podcast of any size, especially if you're below 500 downloads per episode. You need to be start doing TDE. And after establishing a relationship with your dream listeners, DM them a link to your show, ask them for feedback, and you will have one a listener. And that's also how you can get dream guests and get other podcasts to collaborate with you. Okay? So that's step number two. Use social media the right way. If you are under a thousand downloads per episode, that is what you should be doing right now to grow your show. And then if you're over a thousand downloads per episode, you should be focusing 100% on getting your podcast featured on other podcast feeds. That's all the way up to a billion downloads. So there you have it. I just told you what you should do right now and your podcasts will grow probably double or triple in the next three months, regardless of how big your podcast or small your podcast is right now. So step one, be more specific. Step two, start using social media the right way, FAQ about step two. Number one, isn't that going to take tons of time? I don't want to spend all that time on social media. Guess what? You're already spending all that time on social media. You're just consuming and publishing and it's getting you nothing. If you take 15 minutes, look at your phone right now, pull it out, look at the screen time app and see how much time you spent on social media this week. What if instead of spending the time, the way that you're spending it now, you spent half of that time engaging with future listeners, dream guests and other podcasters, tell me how much you think your podcast would grow. You have time for it. You're just not spending that time the right way. Kevin, how do I know if this is working? You'll know. Having friends, getting new listeners, collaborating with people who you thought you had no business collaborating with, you'll see that you are building relationships and then it starts working. Kevin, aren't I going to get sucked into social media? Yes, you need to mute and unfollow everyone else in your life on social media. I know it's painful, but it's actually super freeing to no longer see the pictures of the kids of that person you went to high school with and you didn't actually really even talk to each other in high school, but for some reason every Saturday, you're looking at pictures of their kids with them at a brewery. Get that out of your life. Get sucked into social media for dumb reasons. The other thing is Kevin, this isn't working. Targeted daily engagement. I've been doing it. I've been listening to you. I've been doing 30 minutes of TDE every single day and it's not working. Why? 99 times out of 100, it's because your targeting is too broad or it's off. You're not resonating. People skip number one and they think, okay, cool. I'm going to be specific. I'm going to help American entrepreneurs. You're still not specific enough. If your TDE isn't going to work, you need to be so specific with your message and your listener that you achieve resonance and that when you engage with these people, they're like, whoa, this is crazy. This person gets me. That's why we need to be super, super, super specific on social media. So remember, you do not grow a podcast by posting on social media. You grow a podcast by participating on social media, engaging, targeted daily engagement, listen to episode. I believe seven where I dive deeper into this framework, okay? Step number one, be more specific. Step number two, start using social media the right way. This is how Dr. Boncou went from zero to 8,000 downloads in 60 days. It's how Dr. Rachel Morris went from six K monthly downloads to 20 K monthly downloads in six months. And it's how literally thousands of other podcasters here in the girl show community are doing the same thing. Just hop in to the girl show free Facebook group and search TDE. And you will see literally dozens, if not hundreds of posts of people getting success with this. So join us there. We're happy to help you with it. You will start seeing social media growth immediately. Step one, be more specific. Step two, use social media the right way instead of how you're using it today. Step number three, outsource the grunt work. Now when I first was floundering in Philly, right? When I was spending literally 40 to 60 hours a week editing the show, what I wasn't doing was spending any time on growth and monetization, right? So I was spending probably eight to 20 episodes, sorry, eight to 20 hours on each episode. It was taking me tons and tons and tons and tons of time to edit the show and create social media content and schedule with my guests, all this stuff I was doing from scratch every single time. Meanwhile, I was spending zero time on how to learn how to grow and monetize, which I commend you. That's what you're doing right now. You're spending time on learning how to grow and monetize, so very well done. I wasn't doing that. I thought that if you build it, they will come and I poured every second of my energy into making the podcast. And I actually did, like I said, the podcast was not growing at all during this time, but I didn't understand what I articulated to you. I didn't understand that the reason why I wasn't spending any time growing and monetizing is because I was spending my time on the stuff that I should have been outsourcing to other people, right? So instead, once I realized this, I actually did what's called a time study and I every 30 minutes for six months, I wrote down in a notebook how I spent the previous 30 minutes. It was super cruel. Actually, you get used to it after like two weeks. It's kind of fun. It makes you more productive, but it also our memory sucks as human beings. And it feels to us like we've spent tons of time on something, but we've actually spent no time on something. And it feels to us like we've spent little times on this other thing, but we've spent tons of time on another thing, right? So I didn't realize this, but after six months, those, that six month period when my show Philly Who wasn't growing, it wasn't monetizing, and I didn't understand why I did a time study. And I reviewed that time study after six months and discovered that over those six months, I spent only six hours trying to grow my audience, only four hours trying to monetize, yet the story that I was telling myself was this doesn't work. This is so hard. I tried that. It didn't work. Meanwhile, over that same time period, I had spent 50 hours interviewing guests, which is fine. I wouldn't change that. 60 hours planning, inviting, communicating, writing emails from scratch every single time. I spent 160 hours, the wrong way on social media, making audio grams, posting, posting, posting in Facebook groups, posting content with no results. I still spent 160 hours doing that. That's four work weeks over the course of six months, doing all that stuff that doesn't work. And the worst part is that I discovered that I had spent 240 hours over six months editing my podcast myself. What would happen if I took those 400 hours, 240 hours editing? 160 hours making and posting social content. And even added that 60 hours of planning, inviting, and communicating, and had someone else do that. And I, over the course of six months, bought myself back, 460 hours of time to monetize and grow. Do you think that if I spent 460 hours on something, I would get good at that thing? Yes. And that's exactly what happened. So I was able to outsource editing, social media content, and the admin and grunt work. I did that by hiring a editor who has 20 years experience, shout out to Max Graham. I miss working with you, my man. I hired an editor who was able to achieve in one hour what took me 10 hours to achieve. And at a reasonable hourly rate, I hired a virtual assistant in the Philippines to help with a ton of the admin work. And I got all the social media content off of my plate as well. A lot of the stuff I just stopped doing, right? I didn't even outsource it. So that's number one. Before you outsource everything you're doing, look at everything you're doing and see if you should stop doing anything first, like are you actually getting a return on that time? If not, stop doing it and see what happens. If nothing bad happens, then don't resume doing the thing. Then you could look at automation, right? So I started using a calendar schedule. I started using Zapier, Descript, Panda Doc. I started using all this software that can handle, you know, I didn't want to pay. I thought it should be free. I don't want to pay for that monthly software. Well, I finally bit the bullet and started paying for these things, which are like 10 bucks a month, 7 bucks a month. And it saved me literally hours and hours and hours of time. And then I delegated, I hired an audio engineer. I hired a journalism graduate to help me with my editing and write my voice over. I hired a virtual assistant to handle publishing and scheduling and social posting and even some TDE. And I went from spending 460 hours on editing, making, posting social content, planning, inviting, communicating to virtually none, no time. And I bought all of that time back and spent instead, six to eight hours a week on audience growth and monetization. And that's where it popped. That's when I started to become a six figure podcaster. I was able to go to Coachella in 2019. I had my time back. I went to the beach four times. I went to Europe with my sister and sang at the Vatican, sang in St. Peter's, Basilica. I even did a couple DJ gigs because I'm a wannabe electronic DJ. And I bought a house. And so that's step number three, outsource and delegate all of the annoying paper cut grunt work. It's killing you and it is distracting you from the pieces that are key, which is to grow and to monetize, right? So we have a compelling show number one because we've become more specific. Number two, we decided we figured out how to use social media the right way and get new listeners, dream guests, and collaborate with other podcasters so that we can grow our audience to three, four to 10X on command. We've outsourced the editing, the social media content, and a lot of the admin work to people who are much faster at it and much cheaper than we are. Now we are ready to monetize this thing. So step four of how to grow and monetize a podcast is this. And this is news. This is going to be new to you because I have updated step four with how it actually works and it is this. I submit that there is only one way to monetize a podcast audience. There is only one way. And that is how my podcast went from money pit to cash cow. And it's from how this podcast made me $500,000 in one year. That's how Eric, another one of my clients was able to raise 150K for his investment fund, get $500 per episode sponsorship deals, and get $1,000 per acquisition CPA deals. It's how Grow the Show client Joe Newton was able to land a $14,000 sponsorship deal in one shot. And it's how countless other podcasters in the Grow the Show community are growing and monetizing. And it is this. The way that you monetize your podcast profitably regardless of audience size is to monetize by converting listeners to customers. That is it. Every single audience monetization strategy boils down to that. You can convert those listeners to customers of either your business or of someone else's business. But it's one of those two things every single time, right? Almost every single audience monetization strategy boils down to that. So you must choose basically in order to monetize an audience, you have to decide what business you want to convert your listeners to customers of. It can be either your product or service, right? That's the most profitable. It's the fastest route to becoming a seven figure podcaster. It requires the smallest audience, but it's the most extra work because you have to start and grow a business, right? That has an actual product or service or fulfillment. And so that's coaching, that's consulting, that's software, that's a physical or digital product that you sell. It could be a done for you service that you provide. It could be a community or mastermind that you run. But in either case, it takes work, but it requires no audience. And it is the most profitable and the fastest route to becoming a seven figure podcaster. And so that's how that's why I did this. That's why I started the podcast accelerator program and how I've been able to make half a million dollars in one year with it. So that's number one. You can alternatively, if you don't want to start a business around your podcast, that's coaching, consulting, software, physical, digital product done for you service community mastermind or book. You can also convert your listeners to customers of your podcast monthly membership. That is Patreon, right? That is super cast. That is where a small percentage of your listeners pay five, ten, sometimes twenty-five or even a hundred bucks a month for extra stuff, right? Bonus content, access to you, coaching, access to a community, many, many different things. The episode of this podcast with Jason Suhoi of super cast dives into the many different ways you can have a profitable monthly membership. This is the podcast, this is the middle ground. This is the Goldilocks of podcast monetization. It's the middle ground of the amount of work that is required, right? So it takes a moderate amount of work and it also requires a moderate audience size. I would say the minimum audience size that you need to have it be worth it to create a Patreon or a super cast and really turn that into a systemized business is a thousand downloads per episode. That's the minimum. You can have a Patreon or super cast before that and you will probably get some supporters to give you some cash and you're welcome to do that, but where you're actually building out a membership where every single month you have listeners convert into members and it grows and you make more and more money each month, that you probably shouldn't worry about until you have about a thousand downloads per episode if that is how you are monetizing your business, right? So number one, you create listeners to customers of your product or service. Number two, you can convert listeners to customers of your podcast monthly membership, right? So that's a Patreon or a super cast that requires a moderate amount of work and requires a moderate, moderate audience size at least in the thousands. You could be a six figure podcaster that way for sure, or you can monetize your podcast by converting a percentage of your listeners into customers of someone else's business, right? That's going to require the least amount of work, but it requires the largest audience, right? So the two ways of doing that are affiliate marketing or cost per acquisition marketing where you get paid a commission on every listener of your podcast that becomes a customer of your partner's business. If your audience is smaller, you can do that. And the more expensive the product is, the more profitable your business can be. If you have 200 downloads per episode, you should not waste your time with affiliate links for Squarespace or something that's going to make you like a dollar per conversion because it's just not, it's not going to give you volume. It's not going to make you decent money so you shouldn't waste your time with it. You should focus your energy on growing your audience, right? And then the other version of sponsorship where the other version of monetization, where you make money by converting a percentage of your listeners to customers of someone else's business is what everyone thinks of first when they think of podcast monetization, which is CPM flat rate sponsorships, I'm going to get a sponsor for my podcast. I'll tell you right now, you probably shouldn't do that right now. Virtually every single listener of this podcast is not in a place where they should be going out and chasing after sponsorships because that requires the largest audience in order for it to be profitable for you. It requires volume in order for that to work, right? And so in almost every case, I recommend that to monetize your podcast most profitably, you do it by converting them into converting your listeners into customers of your business, either your product or service or your monthly membership, Patreon, Supercast, etc. If you have a large audience already, if you're already beyond 5,000 downloads per episode, then it would be worth it for you to monetize via someone else's business, via affiliate marketing or CPA ads or even CPM or flat rate sponsorships. But if you are not at 5,000 downloads per episode, you should not be trying to get sponsors. It's just not going to be worth the squeeze and it's not going to turn into a growing thriving six-figure business that way unless you get to that audience size, which you can do. And plenty of folks completely wait to monetize until they get to that point. That's cool. That's totally fine. But I'm telling you right now, it's way more fun to do this when you're getting paid to do it. And the quickest way to get paid to do it is to sell a product or service or a membership full stop, okay? So that's it. That's how you do it. The four steps to a six-figure podcast business that doubles your audience every three months and doesn't burn you out is step one. Be more specific with who you're serving, your listener, your show concept and the outcome that your show aims to provide. Step two, start using social media the right way so your audience actually starts to grow and so that you start to build relationships with that specific audience. You can invite them to listen to your show after you've had a couple interactions with them and they'll be super excited to become your listener. At the same time, you're using social media the right way to land dream guests even faster and to make friends with other podcasters in your space, in your niche, who are either at the same level of view or maybe a couple levels ahead and you can either barter with or pay them to feature your podcast on their feed and that will be the quickest hockey stick growth that you can ever imagine. I promise you that there is no better way to grow your podcast. It's how the big networks do it and it's how you should be doing it too. That's number two. So more specific social media the right way. You have a growing podcast. Number three, outsource as much as you can of the grunt work. So that's audio engineering, that's video editing, that's social content creation, that's admin work, that's scheduling, communications, all of that paper cut work that you can systemize, eliminate, automate and delegate, do that. And then step four, monetize your show via converting a small percentage of your listeners either to customers of your business, customers of your podcast membership, or customers of someone else's business via sponsorship or affiliate deals, right? And the way that you do that is by creating a really, really effective podcast funnel, which I will talk about in a forthcoming episode of the Grow the Show podcast, how to do that. Those steps are exactly how I grew my first podcast, Philly Ho, past 100 K downloads and 100 K monetized. That was through a podcast membership and sponsorship to a combination of the two. My second podcast, this podcast I've taken with only 30 episodes and 40,000 downloads, past half a million dollars, because I took the first version and decided to monetize my show by converting my listeners to customers of my business, which is a high ticket product and service we, it is coaching, it is done for you, it is done with you, it includes tons and tons of stuff. And so that's how I've been able to monetize and grow this audience super, super quickly. So with that, I'm sure you feel like you're drinking from the fire hose. That is how I've done it. That's how I am going to continue to do it into 2022. And shamelessly, if you want, I would love to help you in the program as well. So if you want to learn more about the program and if you want to join up, then I invite you to apply to the program via the link in the show notes. And we will be happy to work with you so that I can help you become on your way to a seven figure podcaster in the next year or so, because I'm about to cross that line. And several of my students are going across that line. And I would love for you to be one of them. If you have any questions about any of this, I know this is a ton. You may have even listened to this multiple times and taken copious notes. I would love to help you for free in the Grow the Show Facebook group. If the link is in the show notes, we've got at this time, about 1800 focused podcasters who are there to grow and monetize their podcast business. And we would love to help you as well. So hit me there with any questions that you have about this. Don't DM me because I would love to answer you via DMs, but I get a ton and I'm totally overwhelmed with them. Post in the free Facebook group and I won't respond personally, tag me in it. I will respond personally and be happy to answer any questions about anything I just taught to you today. So there you have it. There are the four steps to a six figure podcast well on its way to a seven figure podcast. That's how I made half a million dollars via this podcast in 2021. I am so excited to very, very soon be able to say that I am a seven figure entrepreneur or seven figure podcaster in 2022. And I am excited to continue to help you on that path as well. That is all we have for today. This episode was written by me, co-produced by Catherine Nails. And thank you so much. We'll see you next week.