94: How to Be an Incredible Podcast Guest, With Christine McCallister

So, after working with thousands of podcasters in our free Facebook group and hundreds more through our paid growth show accelerator, there is one question that I, as a podcast growth coach, get the most. Like, I get this question way more than the other ones combined. And that question is this, Kevin, if you could recommend one action that I can take that would have the biggest effect on my podcast growth, what would it be? AKA, what's the one thing that would make the biggest difference in growing my podcast? The answer is getting yourself or your show featured on other podcast feeds. And the easiest and cheapest way to make that happen is by being a guest on other people's podcasts. Just think about it. When you are on another person's podcast, you are in front of a whole new audience of people who, number one, already listened to podcasts on a regular basis. And number two, automatically trust you a little bit because they trust the host that's interviewing you. And number three, they're really likely to be interested in what your show is about because they already are listening to another podcast where your expertise is relevant. Now, in episode 60 of Grow the Show, I gave you a bird's eye view of how you can use being a podcast guest to grow your own show. But today, I want to zoom in on one specific part of that process because you can guest on as many podcasts as you want. But in order for those listeners to become your listeners, you have to present yourself in a way that makes them want to hear more from you. So that's why today we are going to dive into how to be an incredible stand out magnetic podcast guest. And to help us do that, I've invited on an expert who knows a thing or two about guesting on podcasts. Her name is Christine McAllister and she is a coach who teaches people about how to be amazing podcast guests. Her whole business is built around that. Not only that, but she teaches people what they can do to capture the attention of and win over new audience members. Now before we begin just a quick warning in this episode, Christine briefly talks about her experience with late term pregnancy loss. She's going to warn you before she starts talking about it. But if that subject is upsetting for you, then just when you hear that warning, skip ahead about a minute and a half after you hear the warning and you'll be all set. So without further ado, let us learn how to be incredible podcast guests. This is Grow the Show. The podcast to help you grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Schmidland and my mission is to help you the independent podcaster to grow your podcast audience more easily and in a way that's more fun. On today's episode, we are going to talk all about how you can be that magnetic standout podcast guest that gets you tons of new listeners for your own show. And so if you want to learn about what is in my opinion, the single most effective way to get more podcast listeners, then stick around to this episode with Christine McAllister of Grow the Show. My name is Christine McAllister and I am on a mission to change the way that podcast guesting is done because I believe the right people with the right messages and voices should be the ones that are heard instead of the ones with the loudest voices or the biggest ad budgets. Christine is a media savant. She's been in the industry for decades. I've been in media since 1999 and I've done everything big and small traditional media. I got to help tell the stories of Olympic athletes broadcasting those games three times for the IOC and I did a documentary for PBS and I have degrees and I was a professor of media and all the things just as the internet was kind of coming into play. So I share that because storytelling has always been my passion. And so before podcasting there were documentaries and television and all the things. When I started my company, I was looking to attract high ticket business coaching clients because I've been an entrepreneur for a decade at that point and I wanted to start teaching what I had learned. And I wanted to go on podcasts but I was intimidated, frankly, like I think a lot of us are, I had a pitch that a friend had shared with me that sat in my downloads folder for a year. A year and I was like getting featured on the Huffington Post and good morning, America and like some bigger outlets writing and I love to talk, right? And so finally, fate intervened and somebody invited me onto their podcast. And I literally recorded that podcast eight months pregnant, double high risk, strapped up to monitors from a hospital bed and it was still really, really fun. Yeah. And so when I realized that, then I went, okay, I'm going to go all in on this because it's fun. And I got out of my own way, created my first pitch, got it immediate, yes, it was off to the races and really did it as an activity that was in flow and joy for me. And then people started telling me that I was approaching it differently and started asking me to teach how they did it. Oh my gosh, this is the best pitch we've ever seen while you're really different. You've gotten some clients from it. Could you quantify that? And I looked up and I looked back through my applications for coaching and I had made over six figures that I could directly trace from people who remembered where they had found me as being on a podcast. And I was like, why am I doing anything else? This is so fun for me. And so a couple of years ago, we pivoted the whole business from business coaching, which was really fun to podcast guest coaching for ROI. And here we are. Wow. Today, Christine is the owner of a successful podcast guest coaching agency. And she has her own podcast called No one's ever asked me that. And she's here today to share everything she knows about being a standout, incredible podcast guest. Now, if you've listened to this show before, you probably know that if you're a podcaster, guessing on other shows is one of the easiest and fastest ways to grow your audience. But don't just take it from me. My friend Selena Sue taught me this and she's a publicity expert. She has this thing called the publicity pyramid where she talks about the best use of each type of media, each platform. And podcast guessing, she identified as the number one way to book high ticket clients. Like, I feel like this is the best kept secret, right? People are like, you need to be on TikTok. You need to be on this new, so bandwagon blabla shiny object. La la, right? Ads, whatever the thing is. All of them have their place. And what if being a really, really good guest, in addition to having your own podcast, of course, because if you're listening to this, you do, what if that becomes the entire center of your organic marketing? Like, the end, cut, print, send, right? And so instead of being like this ad on thing, you do to grow your podcast. It's the number one way to take someone from cold to sold with literally one touch, one freaking touch. And most people think, okay, that translates exactly into being salesy and delivering my keynote speech. And like, no, that doesn't work, right? So it's actually accepting that this is a different skill than being a host, than doing a live, than having your own keynote, and putting in the work to learn it like you learned to write good copy, or anything else, right? So, and that's a big mess and an opportunity for growth. Affiliate partnerships, referral partnerships, introductions into masterminds and inner circles, and homes, and things that you never could have imagined, right? In-person meetups, like, introductions to friends that are way above your level of business. I mean, you name it whatever follow-up. We call it being a guest for life, getting easily back on that show when you have something new to offer, a book, or a new direction, or a new angle, or whatever. Honestly, a lot of times my clients get hired by the hosts, because they fell in love with them in the process of interviewing them. When you show up in this way, you are literally the only. Yeah. And you stay top of mind. So how can you show up in a way that's going to make people remember you? The specifics of being a really good guest are the same thing that they would teach a celebrity or an athlete or something in media training, right? It's essentially how do you come across as prepared and personable? When I taught speech, we called it extemporaneous speech, right? And just to give you a contrasting example, a friend of mine, his name is Eli Wilde, and he was Tony Robbins' number one sales guy. He sold over 100 million in high ticket offers, and he has his own podcast, obviously. We interviewed each other. And he said to me, I have been doing podcast casting all wrong, because he was approaching it like he would go up and close $20 million at a Tony event, and he was taking that and he was bulldozing all of the hosts that he was going on. Well, hotel belief shift, once we talked about the power and the potential of podcast casting, and to his credit, very like beginner ship mentality. I'm willing to learn new skill like I'm here. I've achieved all of this and I'm still on this path. If he's got to learn this skill, like give yourself some grace, but the biggest thing is understand that this is a skill set in itself. And if you want to get good at it, just like growing your show, invest the time to practice becoming a better guest. All right, so what do you have to practice to be a better podcast guest? What steps can you take to have a memorable guest appearance that draws in new listeners? Well, the first thing you need to do before even being on the show is you need to check your mentality. I treated it like a first date instead of like a one night stand. And most people are very transactional when it comes to podcast casting. Like I go on, it will grow my show. Cool. And so I truly saw this as an incredible way to build relationships. And because of that, all of these other amazing doors started opening for me because I was showing up differently than any other guest it ever had. Like John Lee Dumas told me, look, I've interviewed 3,000 entrepreneurs and I can count on one hand. The number of people who've done what you've done, like it's just that different. And it's not hard. It's starting with a completely different mentality than how just about everybody else thinks about it. Yeah. So let's talk about what's different about how you show up in order to make these things happen in order to build these, you know, relationships and be a top 1% podcast guest. What does that look like? What's the difference? It starts with a pitch. And you teach this really well. So we don't need to go into it here. You've got a great process and you've got a great process for research. Episode 72, I believe, in episode 60, right? Go into these. So go listen to those if you want the details of how to create a great, a great pitch that gets a great acceptance rate because I've heard the industry averages like two or three percent. Notice how Christine literally knew the number of the episode where we talked about pitching to be a guest on podcasts. She did very thorough research on previous episodes of this podcast that might correlate with what she's talking about here. This research is crucial to being a great podcast guest. The research process and the pitching process is so important because the way that we think about this is I want you to go on a show where you're going to have a long term friendship relationship with this person. So do a gut check and make sure that you actually like them and would want to hang out with them and go have dinner with them. She goes back to the first date thing. Yeah. Not just that you're trying to be a vampire and get in front of their audience and suck what you can out of their audience, which I know like you share that value, right? It's like we all know how hard it is to grow a podcast like our how much work we put into it, right? And how valuable those listeners are to us, right? So it's gross when someone tries to come and steal them. So when you go on a show with a genuine desire to build a relationship like that comes across and it comes across in the pitch because you're looking to add value, which is what you do Kevin and why you teach and then you've already done some research if you're going to pitch that show. You've already been required to because you're doing a customized pitch instead of spray and pray, right? And that in and of itself sets you up for a better conversation. And when you get there, then you want to make it very, very clear that you're there to be of service, that what you said in the pitch is still true. In addition to researching the host, the person that you're talking to on the actual interview, it's also good practice ahead of time to get to know the host audience. One of the biggest things that I can tell you is no exactly who you're talking to because then you can customize it, right? I want to know exactly the audience I'm listening to and you can do that research ahead of time and then you can also confirm it with a host and a pre-chat. They make a note of it, right? Like, okay, who am I talking to in case I forget? Yeah. But as you practice this, you're looking for ways to share examples that are going to be relevant. So I know in talking to you as podcasters that we all know, because Kevin shared this episode 72, probably other places, that guessing is the number one way to grow your show. And I know you're here to grow your show, right? So I could talk to you about how, if you don't have a podcast, how to get clients from that, but that's probably not really what you're interested in. You're actually interested in growing your show. So let's talk about that, right? So when you know exactly who this audience is, then it becomes very clear what stories you tell, it becomes very clear what examples you give, it becomes very clear what language you use. And so again, you can be specific, right? And if you look at the way really, really successful people do anything, right? Like I think about, you know, going to see Justin Timberlake in concert years ago. And it was in Nashville. And they chose a couple of Nashville specific songs. They're playing in the hockey arena. They they called out the the team, right? When you watch a keynote or anybody, they're going to be like, what's going on? Fill in name of city, right? And they're going to find specific examples to to that room. So make sure that you are specific in your frame. And then that will inform your answers as well. So how do you achieve that while not being salesy and while still being there to serve the host and the audience of the show that you're on? Yeah. Great question. So you teach the first part of this really well, which is like in order to get the outcome that you want, you got to be on the right shows. And you've also mentioned this is not just the obvious ones, because that's what everyone else is doing. If you want to be a top 1% podcast guest and get the ROI that 99% of other people are not getting, you got to do it differently than everybody else does it. So we think about also choosing shows that we call ancillary audience angles. So not only ancillary to your type of business, right? So online marketing versus social media or versus whatever, like these little side angles, but also based on commonalities you might have with the host and that audience. So the reason that I started this business, specific example. So I've been running an online marketing agency for a decade. And this is going to be trigger warning for everybody around pregnancy and infant loss. But my first daughter was still born. She passed away right before her due date. And I didn't know that that was a thing that could happen. And I just went to the doctor, find out when I'm going to go into labor. And they were like, no heartbeat. Now you have to go to the hospital to deliver your dead baby. And the shock and the like upside down nature, right? Of that loss, you're not supposed to not take home a baby from the hospital. You're not supposed to have to bury your own kids like all of these things, right? That was like the Phoenix moment where everything burned to the ground for me. And I went like, what am I doing? How am I going to serve bigger and play bigger and leave a legacy? Not only for me, but for her because I want her to be remembered. And so because she is my origin story for this business, I talk about her a lot. This is why I started this business to help people go from surviving to thriving. And the way I know how to do that is through online business, right? And so to walk that out, I go on a lot of podcasts where people are interested in that part of my story, right? I get asked to speak on stages about how I went from this, like, what psychiatrists call like one of the worst losses you can possibly experience because it's so confusing to running this business and helping people. And like, I've gotten to experience a lot of really cool things. People are genuinely curious about that. Some of the longest lifetime value clients that I've gotten have been from shows we're barely talking about my business. People are super inspired, right? So everybody has that stuff, right? So be willing to go on those shows where you might just have a really strong connection to that host because it is the most leverage form of networking you can do. And so if you would want to have a powerful conversation with somebody, then why not have it on their podcast and have it shared with that audience full of people who've either experienced something or are looking for entertainment or inspiration or whatever because that's going to be a win as well. So before the interview even starts, you want to research three things. First, before you even book an interview, you want to research potential shows where you have a connection with the host, whether that's a personal connection, like a shared experience or background or a professional connection, like the industry that you're in. Second, after you book your interview, you want to do a deep dive on the host of the podcast. Check out their previous episodes and see if any of them might relate to your topic. Give them a listen. Third, research the show's audience. Does the show have a Facebook group or a Discord channel or some other community? I would join it. Search the show on Twitter to see what people are saying. If you're having trouble finding the audience, then at least take some time to think through who the listeners might be and how you can tailor your message to them. And now after you've done all this research, it's time to actually sit down and do the interview. This is the part that can be the most nerve-wracking for people, which is totally understandable. So what can you do and say to make yourself stand out and sound like the incredible smart podcast host that you and I both know that you are? I think one of the biggest tangible tips that I can give you is to treat it like a conversation instead of an interview. Like I am genuinely curious, Kevin, like what do you think? You've interviewed a ton of people. You've been a guest on a ton of shows. Like what makes a great guest during the interview? And for you, what have been the most fun conversations as a guest? Third of the tables, love it. What makes a great guest when I'm interviewing is kind of it goes exactly into what you said is what it's a conversation and not just Q&A because when the guest actually has a conversation, it's like we're both navigating together where to go and how to provide value to the audience rather than it being 100% on the host. It's like you're going hiking together rather than the host being your Uber driver. So when you've been a guest, like what has been the most fun for you? It's the same thing. It's when the host has a conversation and it's not just Q&A, right? I can't tell you how many shows I've been on where the host asks a question and I answer it and then they're like, thank you. And then they move on to the next question. And I feel like it's a job interview. And I'm like, man, did I answer that right? And also when you're a guest and you're answering questions, you say things in your response. And like as you're saying it, like I can speak for myself. I've said things in my response. And as I'm saying it, I'm like, I'd really love to go further into this. But like I don't know if that's what they want. So I won't. And like I finished the answer and I'm kind of hoping they ask a follow up question about it and they don't and some people do and they're like, oh, you tell me more about this thing. And I'm just like, yes, awesome. And we go into it. This one blew my mind because I hadn't really considered this part before. Interviews are most fun for both the guest and the host when they are conversational and authentic. And the best podcast episodes usually come from interviews where everybody involved is having a good time. So as a guest, if you want the episode you're on to be a great one, then it makes sense that you want to keep it conversational and fun. So don't be afraid to ask questions yourself. Plus during a conversational interview, listeners get to hear not just your thoughts and opinion, but they also get to hear a little bit more from the host that they already know and love. I think the thing to remember when you're a guest is that the host is who the listeners are therefore. So everybody goes in being like, look how amazing I am. You know, Kevin makes me look so good and like present me well to your audience. Well, you're going to do that anyway as a result of producing a quality value filled show. Like I don't have to worry about that. Right. So my job, if I'm thinking about this correctly in my opinion, is to make you look as good as possible because then the audience who loves you is like, wow, hi guys, here's something for Kevin and I don't normally. Wow. They actually seem to enjoy each other. That episode stands out to me. Huh. Christine must be cool. Right. And it's not it all goes back to this desire to serve. Right. Like if you take everything that I'm saying here and just apply it from like a salesy whatever perspective, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. People are going to feel it. People are going to feel you can't fake that. Yeah. But these are like some really practical ways to walk out the respect and the appreciation that I believe everyone should have forgetting on to someone show because you know what it takes to produce an episode. Whether you're editing it yourself or you're paying someone else to do it, you know the work that goes into producing not only an episode, but growing a freaking show. And if you check that brain at the door and then go in and are like, you're so lucky to have me. Let me talk about how amazing I am. Right. Then like you're not showing up the way that you want your guests to show up. Right. So be the kind of guest that you wish all of your guests would be. Yeah. And then magic and miracles. I think there's probably a lot of listeners who will almost be relieved at this because a lot of them are going to this for the first time and there's a lot of nerves and there's a lot of, I think the phrase imposter syndrome is overused, but a little bit of that where they're like, oh, like I'm not good enough to be a guest on shows. I get a lot of that resistance, particularly from my clients. And I feel like it'll be a relief to them to say, listen, you're not there to try to gas yourself up and try to make yourself sound cool. So like if you're feeling like insecure, even better, just gas up the host. I mean, just make it all about how cool the host is. Yep. You know, the more you worry about trying to make yourself sound amazing, the less amazing you're going to sound. That's important too though. So thank you for that. So yes, the right shows. Yeah, you got a show up in the right way, which we've been talking about, right? And this takes practice, this takes practice. I also recommend that while you're on the show, you are answering the questions with story. So we call these stories that silently sell because we tend to work with people who are terrified to be salesy, right? Really, really like impact driven people because they wouldn't like want to work with me if they were just in it for the money, right? And so what I have found is that there's very often a correlation between not wanting to be salesy and having a desire to serve. Yeah. So then if you can answer with authentic stories about your own experience of transformation, about your clients experience with transformation, you are sharing something that's rather than what most people do, which is high level theory. And that's what people are going to take away are those specifics because that's how humans learn, right? And then you're also sharing very real answers. You're not be asking, right? You're going, this is this is what it was for me. This is what it was for her, for him, for them, whoever. And I recommend that you put sticky notes on either side of your monitor with like the name and maybe a before and after prompt of your favorite clients of your own story so that when you're asked a question, if nothing comes to mind right away, especially as you begin to learn this, you could take a breath because most podcasts are edited, right? Yeah. And you can look maybe through half a dozen and go, oh, I can tell that story about Kevin and how he went from like burnt out to like 100K and, you know, with his first podcast. So if I was your coach, I would be really smart of me to have included. So those stories then take you out of being salesy, they just are proof of concept, proof of concept, proof of concept. Yeah. Right? You do that throughout. And then the last thing is, yes, having one call to action. And I know that you talk about this as well on your podcast, which is like, how do you design a great call to action for your own? But what most people do wrong when they go on a podcast is when people say, hey, that was a great conversation, Kevin, where can people find you? Then they go, well, I'm everywhere at the show. Find me, right? That doesn't work. Good look, right? Because then they will do nothing just like on your own show. So giving them the specific call to action that makes the most sense if it's to grow your own podcast, right? You talk about and send it right on over to subscribe while they're in the app. So in general, the name of the game during your podcast interview is to be as authentic as possible while still catering to your host and their audience. But your job as a podcast guest isn't over just because the interview is over. After you're done recording the episode, there's still a few things that we encourage you to do to make you stand out to the host and their audience. So the post chat is really important. I face this sort of on the vibe. So if I really, really well, I'm going to say, look, I'm going to share this show when it comes out because like you, I put that in the pitch that I will do that as part of my gratitude for them having me on. What else can I do for you? What else can I do for you? Sometimes it'll be like, well, you are really great guests. Do you know other people who don't suck, right? Sometimes it'll be, hey, I want to bring you in. Hey, I want to introduce you to this person. Hey, I want to have a separate conversation. But like, how else can I serve beyond doing the thing that should be obvious to every guest, but we all know it's not. And then I'm also going to ask them for their address because I like to send a small gift. Nice. And I also tell them that I'm going to send them a small gift because if I ask them for their address otherwise, they might think I'm creepy. Yeah. So yeah, tell them why. Yeah. Right. You do have to ruin the surprise, but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's small, non-promotional gift. Like, I'm not going to send them a copy of my book. That is super cheesy. Don't do it. Yeah. Something again, that is of gratitude. You all, right? Because one, I could take this episode right here and turn it into a month's worth of my social media content. And I could tag you in every single one and get you more reach and share this genius that if we're talkers, most of it, most of our best stuff comes out in conversation. Yeah. And then we don't remember all we said. Right. And we stared the blank computer screen on Facebook. I'm like, when I post today, right? Yeah. So you probably are doing this with your podcast. If you're not, like, get into the accelerator we're Kevin and his team will do a four-year-old show you how also do it with your guesting appearances as well. But it goes back to like, it's worth me sending $25, $30 gift and no one else is doing how much are they paying to edit, produce, host, promote this episode, right? Let me activate some reciprocity here. Now, we've thrown a lot of really great tips at you during this episode. But if you only take away one thing from this show, let it be this. Here's the biggest thing that I'll say. This is true in sales conversations. This is true on your own show. This is true as a guest. People are not going to remember 99% of what you said. They're going to remember how they felt when they listen to you. And that is what is going to get them to take action. And so if you are showing up as yourself, that's probably the most important thing you can do is get yourself into a state where you feel like you're authentic self. There you have it. Now you know how you can be an incredible podcast guest. Now this episode is chock full of guesting tips. So I do suggest you revisit it from time to time as you get booked as a guest on other podcasts and as you're practicing being super comfortable as a guest. But when you revisit it, I don't want you to just pay attention to the tips that Christine is giving as a guest. You should also pay attention to how Christine is going about being a guest herself. In this episode, as you heard, she walked the walk. She was an incredible guest. So on top of giving us some great tactical actions that we can take home, this entire episode is basically an example, a masterclass in being an amazing guest. So I encourage you to use this episode as your podcast guesting Bible. If you do, you will be swimming in new audience members the next time you are on another show. So that is going to do it for this episode of Grow the Show. This episode was written by Catherine Nails and produced by Catherine Nails and myself with post production by Max Graham. I hope you enjoyed. I hope you got value. If this brought you any value at all, please take a moment now. If you're on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to give us a rating, let us know how we did and leave a review so that future podcast listeners of Grow the Show know how much value this show provides. That's going to do it for this time. For Grow the Show, my name is Kevin Schvidlin. I'll see you in the next one.