82: How to Protect Your Podcast

What would you do if one of your former podcast guests threatened to sue your podcast? Or what if you and your co-host got into a massive friendship-ending fight? What about if the person who designed your cover art decided that they deserve a cut of your podcast profits every time you use their art? Are you prepared for any of those scenarios? Have you taken steps to protect yourself and your show from potential problems like these? If you are like me and most podcasters, the answer is no. And more likely your scenario is that you really don't know about any of these scenarios and you're not sure which ones you should really worry about now or which ones you really don't have to worry about now. And so that's what we're here to talk about and we have law expert Alexia Bedotte here to help us do it. She's going to answer several questions we get a lot in the Grow the Show community which are about the law and how it relates to podcasting. What do you need to consider to keep yourself and your show protected? Well, it turns out that protecting yourself legally at least on a really basic level can actually be pretty easy. It could even be as simple as starting the interview by saying something like this. Hi, Alexia, it's great to have you on Grow the Show. We're recording today on August 12th and you please just confirm that you're a consent to being recorded and that I can use this recording in the show and to promote the show. Do you agree? And I'll say yes, I agree. And then you go. Good going. This is Grow the Show, the podcast to help you grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Schmidland. I am your podcast growth coach and today we're actually not going to talk about growth and monetization. We're going to talk about legal protection and what podcasters should consider about the legal structure and the legal protections of their shows. It is not the sexiest topic in the world until you need it. So whether or not you need it right now, you're probably going to be glad that you know it. So stick around and learn the basics of podcast law here on Grow the Show. This episode of Grow the Show is sponsored by Riverside.fm, the leading platform to record studio quality podcasts. More than 70,000 other podcasters use Riverside, including myself, GuyRaz, GaryVee, Spotify and even the New York Times. Riverside is not only great because it has unbelievably high recording quality regardless of your or your guests' internet quality, but it also gives you separate audio and video tracks for each person speaking. It's high tech but easy to use. You don't have to have anything installed on your computer and your guests don't either. And did I mention that the audio quality is way better? If you're recording your interviews remotely, get off of Zoom now and hop into Riverside for your next interview. Your listeners will thank you. Head over to Riverside.fm and use code Grow that's GROW to get 60 free minutes of recording and 15% off a membership plan. The link is in the show notes. My name is Alexia Betta and I'm a production attorney based out of a media and entertainment boutique called Claire's Law out of New York. Now, when you hear entertainment law, that sounds like it might be cool and exciting, right? And you might think that Alexia went into that specialty to get in on all the glitz and glam that comes with the entertainment industry. But that's actually not the case. I don't have a sexy Hollywood story like a lot of entertainment lawyers do, but I will tell you that it was the one topic in law school that just spoke to me. It's something so intrinsic that you can understand what can I say? When does my right to say something conflict with your right to protect your reputation? When does my right to use content conflict with your right to defend yours? So they're just very intrinsically human concepts that you can grasp and which spoke to me way more than anything else that I came across in law school. Why do you think that is? Why did that speak to you so much? I've always really enjoyed talking dialogues, use of words. I think it's an area of law that is specifically about that, right? It's specifically looking at what people can say what they can't say. How do they protect the fruits of their creativity? There is something indescribably awesome and cool to get to play a part in supporting content creators, get their content out in the world. I can't tell you how awesome it feels to hear a podcast that you know the podcast has been so much time getting it legally right. You know, reporting their story that you were able to help them get their content out there into the world and giving them a little bit of comfort that either they're not going to get sued or if they do that they're on the right side of the law. To be able to do that and call that part of your job is awesome. Now, Alexia has worked on a ton of stuff in the entertainment industry including TV and movies. However, the reason I wanted to have her here on Grow the Show is because she is a podcast law expert. It grew up professionally sort of with the podcast industry and so it holds a really close and dear spot in my heart because unlike film and TV that has specific rules and precedents and way of doing things that have been around for decades and for far longer than I've been practicing law. Podcast and really attention to contracts podcasting has been around for decades, but I think the attention and sophistication and creative drafting that has gone into podcasts deals and thinking about how to legally structure. The podcasting creative process that is more recent than just a few decades and so I was able to as I was throwing as a lawyer grow up with the space and so I truly feel. You know, it has a special place in my heart more so maybe than other areas, which I also practice and love, but I have a sweet spot for podcasting and as a lawyer who has a sweet spot for podcasting. Alexia knows that we have to give this disclaimer before we jump into today's lesson. I as all lawyers always have to start the following isn't legal advice and I say that both for my benefit, but especially yours because everything is so facsensitive. So please use this as some rules for the road, but if you ever need specific legal advice, I encourage you to speak to an attorney. It's true this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and definitely speak to your own legal counsel before making any decisions. Now over in the free Grow the Show Facebook group, we get questions about some of the legal issues and podcasting all of the time and I've noticed that just about all of these questions fall into four main categories. The first is about IP or intellectual property, how to make sure you truly own your show. The second is all about guests and the people you have on your show. The third category is about sponsorships and the fourth category is about what we call fair use or whether or not you can use things like movie clips or news clips in your podcast. We are going to touch on all four of these categories in this episode starting with IP, but before we get to all that, I want to address something that I know a lot of you are thinking I'm an independent podcaster. I have great relationships with my team and the people I work with. So it's not like there are a ton of people and companies that I work with on a day to day basis. So do I even need to worry about all of this legal stuff? That question comes up all the time if for whatever reason the relationship has broken down. So if it's very clear from the get go who owns the title, if the two of us start a podcast together and we agree that you own it and you want to keep making it without we. We thought about that at the beginning that's a little bit of the unfortunate thing with lawyers and contracts is often the part that's overlooked is an agreement is what happens when things go wrong. And the truth is that's often the only time you ever look at a contract again is when you want to get out or when it's gone wrong or when you want to do something on your own. And so those are the kinds of questions that are important to think about and who owns what is ever we decide to part ways at some point. But being a bit more optimistic also who gets to do what with the title when things are going well if we want to put the title on a teacher who gets to do that who gets to make merchandise with the title. So it's important to know that from the get go. Yeah, I'm reminded of I think I once heard Gary Keller who is a famous entrepreneur here at the book the one thing I want to talk about. Think of an agreement as a more of a disagreement than anything else where it's like you know we're friends now we're going to go in on this let's decide now while we're friends what happens if we disagree down the road right. 100% the only time that clients call and say ask the question about a contract we drafted is you know 90% of the time because something has gone wrong and they want to know what they get to do. So think about what you learn in this podcast episode as insurance a lot of what we talk about today is going to be about things you can do to protect yourself because let's be honest. Even if we do have the best intentions sometimes things just go wrong and the more people you reach with your message unfortunately the more likely you're going to reach some folks who have not so good intentions. And so instead of being blindsided and unprepared for when it all hits the fan you can take precautions that will make it so much easier to resolve any conflicts that you might have to deal with now or in the future. And so possibly one of the most important things you can do early on in your podcasting career from a legal perspective is to make it absolutely clear who owns all of the portions of your show. A lot of people I think do not necessarily realize the value they are sitting on when they create a podcast there's this feeling that grab a mic you record and maybe not realizing how much IP and how layered the IP that you're creating his and so it's really thinking about that both. What are the first things they need to do to protect all those different layers of IP and not just put it out there into the world without having thought of that first because no matter what you may want to do down the line. You will want to make sure that you've kept your options open IP stands for intellectual property in general IP is any creative or intellectual work that the law protects so things like patents trade marks and copyrighted work all fall under IP. This can be complicated but lucky for us when it comes to podcasting we only have to worry about a few things. You can think of it as maybe an IP pie there are many slices to this IP pie you have the title of your podcast you have the recording you have the underlying materials the script. The RSS feed is a really important piece of IP for lack of a better word that many people maybe don't think of in that way and so it's thinking in all of those things together represent this IP pie that you're sitting on or holding as a podcaster. So the four slices of your podcasts IP pie are the title your recordings your script and your RSS feed understanding what rights you have to each of these pieces can help protect yourself and get the most value out of your creation so let's go over each piece starting with the title. The title is important to the side who gets to do work with the title so often the way that you protect the title is through trademark and the whole trademark process follow there's a lot of resources online for how to do that but essentially that would be the the doctrine the area of law to protect your title would be trademarks as opposed to copyright and if you're working with different people who may all own the podcast together who gets to continue making the podcast under that title. All right so the title piece of the IP pie refers to who can use the actual title of your show and where they can use it but what about the actual podcast audio library the audio recordings is important because whoever owns the copyright and makes the decisions with the recordings is really the party that gets to decide. How the recordings are released when they get posted online when are they going to be dropped into an RSS feed are they going to be licensed to go somewhere exclusively behind a paywall so that the actual recordings itself the ownership of those that's what dictates how those recordings essentially live out in the world and public right the person who owns the recordings. That's the person who gets to make those decisions unless you've contracted other ones and then how is that different than the scripts so it's an interesting nuance because you know let's say between the two of us if you own the recordings and you get to decide what can stand with those but if I've reserved rights to the scripts then maybe I want to go and write a book based on the scripts or enter into some other deal based on the scripts which doesn't interfere with your ability to go and release the podcast. But I've carved out that right for myself to the scripts I've carved out the ability to do more with the IP in the content itself as opposed to focusing just on the recordings and what can be done with the recordings and those two are often just lumped in one right vaccine contracts where it just says I own the podcast well no. They're lumping everything together but it doesn't have to be that way the slices of the pie can go to different stakeholders depending on what makes sense if you're working with a partner that's funding the podcast because they're going to bring marketing opportunities and they are the ones who are the experienced distributor it probably makes sense for them from their perspective to own the recording as well are you going to have your fight at that level are you going to say okay but I'd like to reserve rights to the underlying materials I'd like to be able to run a book based on the script. So to understand the difference between owning your recordings and your script think about what happened to Taylor Swift Taylor Swift wanted to have more of a say in how her songs were produced and distributed she wanted more control over her music as she grew as an artist but she ran into a problem. All of her old albums were owned by this guy named scooter and scooter didn't want to sell her the rights to her old albums but lucky for T Swift fans everywhere scooter basically only owned the recordings of those songs he didn't own the script or the lyrics the actual written song itself this means that Taylor Swift was able to go and re record the exact same songs and re release new versions of those. Those old songs that's why you've seen for the past couple years Taylor Swift releasing all these new versions of her old songs called Taylor's version that scooter dude still owns the original recordings but the re released recordings all belonged to Taylor and so she was legally allowed to do this because she still owned the rights to the lyrics or the script. Now I'm obviously simplifying this a ton and music law is different than podcasting law but the idea still stands having the rights to your podcast recordings give you the right to do what you want with those specific pieces of audio owning the script means that you can do what you want with the ideas and the scripts that your podcast audio is produced from. So we've talked about your podcast title the name of your show your recordings and your script and how those two things are different and so the final piece of this IP pie is your RSS feed having control over your RSS feed basically means that you have control over your link to your own audience. Who controls the RSS feed is one of the most important conversations that happens in any podcast deal because everybody wants to control it everybody wants to drop promo further new shows everybody wants. Both in success of the show to be able to use it and also when the shows done you've amassed this amazing and loyal and dedicated audience who maybe you did your first show on food and you're doing a second show on food and you want to be able to drop that next show in it if you don't have control or you agree that you can't do that. Then you're stuck so the control over the RSS feed is really important because that is your link to your audience as the host you want control over the RSS feed but also understandably if your host working with the production company the production company who's invested money into the show wants to be able to then leverage that and drop future shows in it so there's always a negotiation that happens at the level of control over the feed and you can get creative about it. In some cases it might just be 100 zero there's no discussion depending on who you're speaking with maybe you can come up with a certain number of promo spots a quarter or other things other incentives that you can get so it doesn't have to be black or white but it's definitely a conversation to have. Do any stories come to mind that the listener might be interested in for cases where maybe somebody didn't have the right agreements on their RSS feed or even their title or something like that like what are some examples of times where you've seen a podcaster kind of not not give this consideration it deserves and then or they gave it the consideration it deserved and it turned out good. Absolutely I mean it happens every time every time somebody's worked on a contract where they've drilled down a little bit and what happens on the feed they're happy so it happens often where you will grant let's say someone's funding your podcast you will grant them exclusive control over the feed for a while you know I happened recently we're one podcaster even though they left the production company that had funded them and the production company retained the feed. They had negotiated the ability to promote their new show in the feed so while they left and weren't working with the production company they were able to direct their listeners and say hey you can find our new show here subscribe here and able at least to benefit from the audience that they had cultivated even if they don't keep the feed you want to be able to tell the audience in that feed hey here's where you can find me if you can't take the feed with you. So that podcaster had the foresight to negotiate that into the agreement ahead of time like hey if and when down the line I leave I want to be able to talk to my audience on the feed exactly and it literally says in the contract you know at the end of the term or if they don't renew that I will have access to the feed to drop up to ex promo spots a quarter or a month for my project. Some variation of that yeah and they thought of that at the beginning which can be a little comfortable because you're saying hey what happens when we don't work together but everybody understands that those are conversations you have to have. So your podcast intellectual property is like a pie with four pieces your title your recordings your script and your RSS feed each of those pieces gives you specific rights to specific parts of your podcast. Everything we've talked about until now is especially important to think about if you're working with multiple people on your show but even if you aren't it's still important to understand because understanding IP and having protection there is the way to maintain ownership of your podcast. But what happens when somebody comes onto your show as a guest it's not like they have a claim to own your podcast or your IP but their voice appears on the show. So is there a way to protect yourself when it comes to having guests on your show do you have to do anything to protect yourself from guests do you need to have them sign a release form. There is no law in the United States that requires you to get an appearance release from someone who's participating on your show let's start with that. Now if somebody you interview someone on your show and they understand that they're being recorded for a podcast that they've consented to being recorded for a podcast and you record them saying yes I'm participating in this podcast happy to be here. That's already pretty good to start with that the reason that people get releases is not because they're legally required to have the person be on your podcast it's mostly because of all of the other nice things that are in a release. So there's a release of claims usually the host isn't going to sue you for anything that they said on the podcast they give you wide promotion rights to use the recording in many different ways. You can and you know usually across the states you could cut a clip from your podcast with the interview to promote specifically the episode even if you don't have a release and the person consent to be on the podcast but can you then use that clip to promote your other shows no. Whereas if you got a release that says I can use it in promotion of you know me and my company then they've contractually agreed to something that's larger than the implied release you get when someone hasn't agreed to sit on your show and knows what they're doing so. So especially if you're working with larger distributors platforms they tend to be the ones who want releases because they want to use it more widely and they want to use the podcast to promote their other shows or other shows and their networks but from a pure matter of law as long as your. Guest knows that they're being interviewed for a podcast and you can report them saying that because that's good to have in your back pocket you are not legally required to get a release but there can be benefits from having their release. Yeah I thought question would be I'm seeing podcasters who like they'll have a booking link to book a time and there'll be a little box that says you know by checking this box I agree that and it might be something like you just mentioned like you know this company can use this for to promote. Yeah is that are you covered in that sense like is that I guess I don't know if the term is defensible but like is that legit. It really depends on how clear it is if it's buried at the end and you have to scroll far far down before clicking and you didn't really see it it might be challenging that there really wasn't in for consent if you've made very clear you know by. Clicking here I agree and it says what the terms are that may be enforceable but. I would still recommend it's good idea to get them when they're on the show reporting saying you know hey you're great to have you on the podcast can you confirm repeat reported for this today permission to report great let's. Let's do that as an example so what would I say so you kind of just said it but I would basically say to you. Now you can say hi like see I'd say great to have you on grow the show we're reporting today on August 12th and you please just confirm that you're a consent to being reported and that I can use this reporting in the show and to promote the show you agree and I'll say yes I agree and then you go. When it comes to your guests the trick is to always be clear make sure they know they're being recorded for a podcast and let them know where else you might use the content that you record this need for clarity also extends to your relationships with your sponsors. Have a very clear deal with the sponsor even if it's bullet points in an email be very clear on what you are getting and what you are offered for example if you say you will be the exclusive sponsor of my podcast. What does that mean does that mean you're going to be the exclusive sponsor for every episode for an episode for season so choose and use your words carefully drilled down to the level of detail what are you offering for every episode season the whole podcast that would be one thing like be very clear with both for your benefit and there's what are they getting for their sponsorship for their investment and what are you offering to give. So and I've seen that happen we say you know sponsor my podcast didn't mean the same thing I meant when season or an episode they meant the entire series can there be other sponsors that's another thing to be clear are you the sole sponsor are you a sponsor exclusive not exclusive have those conversations. What are their expectations of the sponsor in terms of how the sponsorships going to be disclosed because you have to disclose it so any sponsor that wants to you know you can make it seem organic but it can't be obtuse the audience has to know when something is sponsored and when it isn't so aligning on how that sponsorships can be said that's also helpful so everybody's happy with the final product. Yeah so you said the audience has to know if a product is sponsored or isn't right that's what you have to know so sponsorships endorsements let's say you're doing an episode about let's say you're trying to find the best martini in New York City and that episode is sponsored by one of the oldest bars in town. And you say one of the places that you can find a great martini is this bar you would have to disclose at some point in the episode and by the way this episode is brought to you by and named the bar because otherwise it's not clear to the audience that there's this relationship between the editorial content and the sponsorship so you would have to disclose the sponsorship for the episode if at the very least the episode content is related to the sponsor. Anytime you are directing one of your audiences to product and then you have some sort of relationship to do that that it's not fully independent that you just haven't decided but it's part of this affiliate relationship that has to be disclosed it has to be disclosed next to the link the audience has to be able to see not zoom or scroll down further away to see the disclosure. Alright so far in this episode we've talked about intellectual property or IP and how to set yourself up for legal success when it comes to guests and sponsors the final piece of podcast law that we're going to talk about today is fair use and for that the question is when is it okay for you to use a clip from a movie or the news or a song and when is it copyright infringement. Understanding what is and isn't fair use is probably one of the most important things for a podcaster starting out who especially doesn't have the budget to license all of their content there are so many fair use this out there that you can use. 10 seconds of content or up the 30 seconds of content and it's a fair use or you can use two lines from a poem and it's a fair use or if it's for educational purposes it's a fair use none of those things are those are all miss those are all miss there is no bright line rule when it comes to fair use and if ever anyone has told you there is where you founded. Ignore fair use is unfortunately a pretty subjective concept there are four factors that courts look at to decide if something was a fair use but there are no specific. Guidelines for what is and isn't it's a application of those for factors and the most important what it really comes down to is are you using content in a way that's different and transforms and casts a new meaning than the original so for example. You have a podcast that reviews new movies that come out and you are commenting on a specific scene and the chemistry between the actors in that scene and then you want to cut to. A short clip specifically that you feel illustrates the chemistry between the actors you cut to that clip and then you comment on it and say you know and you can hear in this clip and the way the answer and that they. Fairly you know they finish each other sentences that's a good example of a fair use because the original use in the movie is to entertain. The use in your podcast is to use it so that you can comment on it specifically making a point about the chemistry between the actors and an important thing to think about for podcasters with fair use and that's a mistake that I see happen all the time is you've done this really good fair use right you picked a good clip you've commented on it but then it runs under. The narration it runs under your commentary for a long time you want your fair use to be in the clear because it's very difficult to say that it's still a fair use when the person can't really hear it at that point you just have someone else's copyrighted content running under yours so when you're cutting your fair use clips you know you say your comment you cut to the clip. Pretty clean cut and then you comment again and that's a mistake that happens all the time so don't run it under the narration and use no more than you need just to make your point if you're using it because it sounds good or because it sounds better than you saying it that's probably not a really good indication of fair use yeah if you're using it because you need your audience to hear the original so that you can then comment on it or because they need to hear the original in the context of the show. That is a better indication of a good share it's arguing so when you hear a news clip on a podcast I feel like the use case that comes to mind is actually something that I always thought was fair use but doesn't sound like it actually is where they're just kind of using the news clip to tell you about something that happened but they're not really commenting on the news clip itself. News clips are an interesting one a good example of a fair use of news clips which happens a lot is if you're a podcast that's covering an event that happens and you say and the media just where wild and the coverage across the media was so inconsistent and then you cut to a clip from CNN and a clip from ABC and a clip from Fox and you use that to show out different media covered a certain event that's probably going to be in pretty good fair use. If you're using a long clip of an anchor summarizing what happened where you could just as easily report that yourself that's probably not a very good fair use so. You want your use of the news to be for a different reason the original use of the news was to convey the news. If you are using the news in your podcast to convey that use as opposed to show how the news was conveyed or place it in context that's where you're getting into more murky territory so I've seen huge podcasts that have put zero thought into legal protection agreements just nothing which is which is risky. I've also seen beginner podcast who have spent thousands of dollars trademarking a name and doing all this stuff where they haven't really even tested the show whether people will listen to it whether they even like doing it so that's the big thing where it's like okay how much how much when do you say when so an early podcaster what what's your guidance for them. Trademarking and copywriting involves a cost right when you apply for a trademark and you apply for copyright there's a cost involved and it may simply not be an option for you as a podcaster when you're starting to register the copyright and all of your scrims and all your reporting so if budget considerations are an issue maybe pick the ones that you think are going to be the most popular or pick the ones that you want to protect the most maybe register those same for the trademark type right trademark applications it costs there's money in both. And registering for a trade think about before you start using it who else is using it out there search for the title and Apple podcasts search for the title on Spotify try and understand before you invest a lot of time and money into creating a new brand and title what's out there what's competing who might object try searching the US add an in trademark office register see what's out there. So there's all kinds of things you can do that are not necessarily applying for the trademark or applying for the copyright but that give you a sense of what's out there. And again, I think the most important thing you can do as a podcaster when you're starting out is have very basic agreements with everyone who has touched your podcast in some way shape reform. Have a basic agreement with the person who designed the cover are have a basic agreement with the person who recorded the theme song and maybe a friend who's a great guitarist who did this as a favor that's wonderful but have a really simple agreement even as basic as an email exchange something that makes it clear who between the two of you owns the copyright your deals with your producers your co-producers sound engineer editors hosts all of those things so ideally. If you want to be in the driver's seat and make all decisions you're the sole copyright owner and you get to make all decisions related to that copyright that might not always be possible maybe you're working with a co producer and your boards going to co-own it that's great but then discuss who between the two of us gets to make decisions of how it's distributed do we both get to grant licenses to it do we both get to make turn this into a longer audio format turn it into a sound TV. Show all of the questions of how you use the IP there's both there's who owns it and who gets to make the decisions and if you have a co-owner those are things you want to get into if you just want to own everything yourself you just want agreements which have the magic words which are work for higher which means that the law treats what they did from the minute they created it as if it was owned by you have agreements with people that you're working with make it really clear who owns what what the relationship is between you. And be responsible with your content what are you saying have realized that podcast content is subject to the same laws as any other piece of content is as you can get in trouble for what you say on your podcast and the same ways you can on a documentary so be responsible about your reporting about the things you say fact check the statements about think about fair use don't just drop a bunch of third party content in there without thinking whether you can or whether it's a fair use so. I would say really those two things for podcasts are starting out is clarity of the relationships with all the people working on your podcast who owns what and then also being responsible about your content what goes out there as well. Alright alright I know I know we just threw a ton of information and legal ease at you but if you take anything away from this episode let it be these three things first when you're working with anyone else whether it be a co-host a graphic designer a sponsor or a guest be very clear about what your expectations for the relationship are and get those expectations down in writing especially at the beginning. I think of the relationship when everything's great and you're totally friends be extra specific extra clear and extra transparent it can be a little uncomfortable to have that conversation at the beginning but trust me it'll be way more uncomfortable when things go wrong and you haven't made these things clear second keep in mind that you can't just publish anything that you want on your podcast feed you have to be careful about what you say on your show now I'm not saying that you have to be paranoid about every single day. It's a little second of audio you publish but when you're talking about someone else or using content that you didn't create yourself especially take a few extra minutes to really think about what you're publishing and do some research into whether or not it could potentially get you in trouble and so the third and final take away is that yes there are a ton of precautions that you can take on your own to protect yourself and your podcast however if you ever find yourself in a gray area when it comes to the legal side of podcasting and you think there's a chance there's a chance there's a chance there's a chance there's a chance that there could be trouble it's always best to consult a lawyer who can give you advice for your specific situation not online experts like me so if you pop into the Grow the Show Facebook group and ask a question about your specific legal situation all we're going to say is you got to talk to a lawyer don't listen to us lawyer consultants can be expensive but they aren't nearly as expensive as getting sued or losing the rights to your show I know this all might sound a little scary but I promise you that if you use good judgment and keep what you learn today in the back of your mind you'll already be ahead of the game and all in all please please please don't let these considerations slow you down from doing the work that you need to do to make grow and monetize your show because if you don't do those things and if you allow something like this to completely distract you from those things it's not going to matter at all because your show is going to fail and it won't matter that you have tons of protection around a podcast that has no listeners so keep that in mind now having said all that if you do have any specific questions or clarifications on what was gone over in this episode in particular because it was a lot of stuff definitely join us in the free grow the show Facebook group the link is in the show notes you can post any questions that you have like I said before if you ask a specific question about your specific situation we are going to cop out and tell you to talk to a lawyer but if you have questions about the concepts words phrases that we talked about today we're happy to answer them in the grow the show Facebook group hop in there post your questions tag us tag me tag me grow the show team and we'll be happy to help you out I'll see you there grow the show is a Q9 production this episode was written and produced by Catherine Nails and myself with post production by Max Graham and a very special thanks of course to Alexia Badaat forward grow the show by name is Kevin Schmidtland I'll see you next time