239 | How She Hit 1 Million Podcast Downloads in 90 Days

We're just shy of hitting our first million downloads. That's just absolutely unbelievable. It's amazing. That is Nicole Holliman. Not long ago, she was struggling to get traction with her podcast. But then she and her sister launched a new podcast that became a viral hit with over a million downloads in just 90 days. The fact that this happened in the three months and the few days is unheard of. Today, Nicole joins us on Grow the Show to break down the exact steps she took to go from zero to one million and how you can apply the same strategy to grow your podcast audience just as fast. We went viral not even on day one. It was day negative one. It was before the episode even came out. In this episode, you're going to learn what the key difference was between her show that was struggling and the show that exploded. We signed with the network. We signed with an agency like all of these things have happened and fallen into our lap. And we still look at each other like, what's happening? Oh my god, this is real life. Like, you know, having to pinch yourself. So stick around to this episode. If you want to learn how to make a podcast go super viral and reach millions in a matter of months, who knows? It might just change your life. My name is Kev Michael. I am your podcast growth coach and this is Grow the Show. Nicole Holliman, hello and welcome to Grow the Show. Thank you for having me. This is surreal, dude. This is fun. Yeah, I'm so pumped to have you. It is so exciting. I've been thinking back all day to our original conversations, which technically was a sales call. Like, I think it was like May or something like that. Yeah. And back then, we were talking about a different podcast than we're going to be mainly talking about today. But can you take us back to that moment in time and particularly share, you know, before we linked up, what was your show? What was it called? And what were you looking to change about it? So, oh my gosh. It just feels like a different lifetime ago. It's so funny. Right before your, maybe before Grow the Show and you were brought into my life, I had separately made this decision of I really love podcasting. And it had been a branch of my business for a very long time. But I knew I wanted to make it my full-time gig. And I knew that the numbers that I was getting were not even close to what full-time podcasting could possibly be. And so, my show was called the Life Coach Baker Podcast, which my business was called Life Coach Baker at the time. And when you and I hopped on the call, one of the first things you mentioned was maybe the title is not something that brings people to the show because I think it was you or maybe it was someone else who said, is it life coaching for bakers? And I literally started laughing because I was like, I could see why that is so confusing. And so, one of the things that I was really keen on doing was going back to quite literally the beyond basics. Because I never really started the show with a premise. I never started it with an idea. I definitely never had a 10-word summary or anything even close. And I think that that was one of the reasons why it was really struggling to capture people. I think it was struggling to even attract people to begin with. And so, that was really podcasting 101, even despite being a podcaster for four years at the time, was what I needed to go back to. And that was when someone mentioned you and your program to me. And I was like, that's what I need. And I'm pretty sure I signed up within like 24 hours after you called me. I will move fast. Yeah, you were like, let's do it. I'm like, okay, let's start rolling. I'm a decisive person, yeah. I love it. Very cool. Awesome. So, yeah, I remember you joined up. We immediately started working on your show's premise. And so, what changes did you make after going back to those fundamentals? Is everything an option? Because it feels like everybody wants it. All of the above. The title was the biggest one. So, we mentioned the idea that Life Coach Baker podcast was just not really bringing people. It wasn't really a keyword. It wasn't really something that people were Google searching. So, I eventually settled on the title of Imperfect Success. And it was really geared towards helping high achievers who have those really high standards for themselves. Learn how to goal set. And learn how to goal set in a way that didn't kill them from burnout over and over again. And I never would have been able to say that back in May. Like, that's what the show is about. So, other than changing the title, really getting clear on what is this show? That 10-word summary, that basic premise, what's the problem it's solving? That right there, doing that work, was probably one of the smartest things I've ever done was going back to the basics with Grow the Show. So, that was really the big thing that I think then tumbled all of the other changes down the road. You know, making ads rotating was a big one that I loved the last year class that you taught on that. Like, there were a bunch of little changes, you know, that I made here and there. But those were the two big ones that I think made the biggest difference for sure. And I started seeing pretty quickly, I started seeing growth of people retaining, finding the show, and then retaining on as listeners, which was really cool to see that. Yeah. Now, since then, you focus on the shift a little bit. Just slightly. Yeah, and things have changed. So, moment we've all been waiting for, can you tell me about the origin? Because I don't even know how this came up. So, tell me about how and why you started your second podcast. So, back in July, actually, I had just gotten married, and this funny thing happens after you get married is you have a lot more free time on your hands. And so, I was like, I'm gonna start reading again for fun, and I picked up this book series, and it was a fantasy romance series, and I got lost in it. To the point that my husband was hearing 45 minute divulging of, here's what I'm reading right now on the nightly basis. And finally, he was like, so, why don't you start a podcast about this? And I was like, no, absolutely not. No way am I starting a podcast about this because I already have a solo show. It's a lot of work to do a solo show, and especially the type of podcast I'd wanna do about these books, which would be hyper-intensive deep dives, would be way too heavy a lift for one person. And also, there'd be no banter between co-hosts. So, I started forcing my sister to read these books with no intention of podcasting, and I say force not exaggerating. I did not give her a choice. She's a mom, and I still was like, you need to read these books, you don't have an option. And so, her and I started exchanging, I kid you not, probably 50 to 100 texts a day about these books. And finally, I started picking up a new series called Fourth Wing, which was blowing up on book talk, and I loved it so much that I made Lexi read it after the other romanticy series, five book series, I should mention, that I made her read prior. And she brought it to my attention, what if we started a podcast about this? And I was like, universe, come on, cut me a break. So, I eventually caved, it took me a few days, but I eventually caved, and we started recording episodes about another series, but we switched it to the series Fourth Wing. And we cut these clips, I used a script, so it was really easy for me to cut social clips, and all this kind of stuff out of the episode. And we started posting them on TikTok as like a teaser of like, here's what's to come from the fantasy fan girls. And we went viral, not even on day one, it was day negative one, it was before the episode even came out. And we just started going viral over and over and over and over again for like 10 weeks straight. Now to the point where actually just yesterday we hit our first 1 million viewer video. And this, which is insane to me, to even say that. So the listenership, we originally had the goal of 20 listeners in the first week. And you know, for a new podcast, like, getting listeners really hard. And I already had a podcast for a while, so I knew that getting listeners wasn't gonna be a walk in the park. Now I did do a lot of the premise work with Lexi so that we knew the show from the ground up before we even hit record for the first time. But I think the first week we got 5,000 downloads. And then we're, as of today, we're just shy of hitting our first million downloads. That's just absolutely unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yes. And like, so before we hit record, you said that you're about 10,000 downloads away from a million and I said, oh, so you hit that by the end of the month and you said, no, probably by the end of today, which is just unfathomable. I mean, that's the rest of today, that your show will get more downloads than many podcasters get in a whole month. Or even here. Yeah. And that is not lost on Lexi and I like, we still look at our numbers and look at our social media followings and what's happened since then. I mean, we've signed with the network, we've signed with an agency like all of these things have happened and fallen into our lap and we still look at each other like, what's happening? Oh my God, this is real life. Like, you know, having to pinch ourselves and just it's this overwhelming gratitude. And I'm not saying this, I'm trying to make this not sound as cheesy as it is, but it is true, just like this overwhelming gratitude that we know not everyone is in this position. And the fact that this happened in, I think, three months we launched on September 11th. So it's, you know, December 13th. So three months and the few days is unheard of and we do not take it for granted. Yeah, well, congrats and just ultimate respect to the two of you because you've been so humble as this is going up, but also credit to you both because, you know, it's weak, like the amount of work that you guys put into your episodes is unbelievable. Like, because this, you know, this isn't a show where you two just throw out the microphone and chat about, you know, what's on your mind? You guys are doing a lot of work, right? Can you talk about like what type of frappers going into each episode? Yeah, so I'll just talk about like a week in the life of like the fantasy fan girls podcast. So Monday and Tuesday, Lexi and I both separately sit down and write out the outline for the chapters that we're covering of the show. So we'll cover anywhere between like I'd say two to seven chapters of the book that we're covering. And that will take us anywhere from I'd say eight to 12 hours to do that really intensive deep dive. We not only look at the text itself, but we do, you know, keyword searches in the books that are out, we go down, you know, TikTok and Reddit, rabbit holes of theories and all these different things. So that takes about, you know, eight to 12 hours. Then the episode recording itself can take anywhere between three to four hours and that's of just raw audio. And then I'm still editing the podcast. It's something I'm hoping to offload very soon. And that can take anywhere between eight to, I mean, I think the longest I've ever spent on editing was 16 hours for our finale episode for fourth wing. So it is quickly becoming a full time job. And I'm happy that it's reflecting that in things that we're actually able to make it a full time job. But it is not for the faint of heart. And like when we share that with our listeners, they're like, oh my God, you guys, like that's insane. Like, why would you take this on? But I think that's why the podcast has been so successful because this is not for the faint of heart. And a lot of people don't have, you know, 40 hours a week to devote to this. And Lexi and I did decide to take that on as our personal feed. Yeah, yeah, right. Well, I mean, you had the flexibility because you had your own business, but you know, you're right, not everybody has that. Can you, let's go back to just the development of the premise of the show because you did the exercise of revamping the premise of your original show. And so how would you say did you approach the show's premise of fantasy fangirls differently, having done that already? The big thing was I used a lot of the questions, I'll say, from the premise work. So what do you want people to get out of the show? What is the, you know, basic idea? And honestly, the 10 word summary, I think I wrote it on the first try. And it's actually the thing I say every, because I start the episodes. I say welcome, welcome, welcome to the fantasy fangirls podcast. Where two sisters dive deep into beloved fantasy lore character theme series and more. Now, obviously that's way longer than 10 words, but it's become such a rally cry. I'll say that all of our listeners, like we were at a midnight premiere recently, and people would like repeat it back to us. Like it's crazy, like how it's become something that people have now rallied behind. So that was a big thing of just writing, what is the premise of the show in as concise words as possible? We actually used chat gbt quite a lot for title creation, but one of the things I really wanted to be mindful of was the title. One of the things that chat gbt actually came up with was fantasy fanatics, and we were originally going to go with that. But then we started thinking about, ooh, fantasy football and fantasy sports. That could really easily go down that road. So we did some research and we eventually, and then we eventually landed on fantasy fan girls. But really wanting to make sure that the podcast title was clear because I felt like I had really learned my lesson with that. Then obviously the cover art match, we actually don't have any photos of us on the cover art. We just have a book with like some fantasy things coming out. So wanting it to be super clear without anyone needing to read a bio, without anyone needing to hit plus play on any of the episodes, we know exactly what this show is about. And I think that that's one of the reasons that, I mean, our Spotify impressions have done really well. So I think that's one of the reasons specifically on podcast platforms like that. We do convert listeners because it is really obvious what the show is. Yeah, they don't have to do any thinking. You see it and they're like, oh, okay, I know what this is. I know if I wanted or not, right? Exactly. And like that was something that we really wanted to be mindful and Lexi's in marketing. So she has like a huge background in PR and marketing all that kind of stuff. So she was really on board with her and I sitting down and figuring this out. So let's talk about TikTok. Because now you earlier in the, just before you mentioned the phrase book talk, which I'm pretty sure means book TikTok, right? Correct, yes. Okay, cool. So for those, you know, for those who are not TikToks that are in the TikTok lingo. And essentially, I mean, you said how you posted your very first video, got tons of reach. Why do you think that is? I think because the book itself was so hot on TikTok at the time and I think it still is because the second book in the series, there's only two out as of right now. There's going to be five total in the series. The ramp up to book two releasing, which was on November 7th was massive. The book itself blew up. The first book is called fourth wing. The book itself fourth wing blew up over the summer to the point where even the author was like, whoa, like this is crazy. And so I think that that was one of the big reasons. A lot of people on book talk, you could not scroll past five videos without one of them being about fourth wing. So I think that's a huge reason. Another one is no one was covering this book or even these types of books in this way, in this super deep analytical way. There's a lot of book club podcasts, I'll say, out there. And like, those are great. They definitely have their place. They're, you know, one episode where you're talking about one whole book. And while Lexi and I love those types of podcasts, we really wanted it to be almost like a chapter by chapter analysis, because that's just how our brains work. So finding a niche where it was not only underpopulated, but it was quite literally a niche of our own, I think is also what made TikTok the algorithm be like, ooh, this is exciting. So I think it's really those two things. And also like Lexi and I is dynamic. We are sisters, I've known her my entire life. And so there was, there's banter immediately right off the bat and we laugh at each other. We have insight jokes and the laughter, it's funny. The laughter clips that we pull tend to always do better in reach than any like super serious pull. So I think that's another reason. Yeah, I know, I thought that was interesting too. That's like encouraging almost. Yeah, the positive, happy ones. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. All right, we'll get back to the show in one second, but real quick, what if instead of publishing into the void every week and seeing the same flat audience numbers with no growth and no ROI, you got expert feedback on every single episode that you published. Feedback that broke down exactly what you did right and exactly what you need to change in order to grow faster. And what if after just four weeks of getting that kind of feedback, your numbers actually started to go up. Well, that's exactly what happens inside the Grow the Show Accelerator. It's a 90 day program where you're gonna get one-on-one guidance on the actual episodes you publish. You learn what it takes in order to grow a podcast in today's day and age and along the way you get feedback from an expert that guides you as you grow. All, of course, so that you can grow your audience, get more leads and make more sales. So if you'd like to chat with us to see how this could work in your business, just click the link in the description and apply. All right, back to the show. I'll highlight a couple of things that you've shared just so that the listener, you know, listening to us today can really take it away. First of all, is that you establish to cat one premise, category of one. So as you've said, there are many different book clubs, shows that are discussing different books, but you guys made a show that doesn't exist. It is literally the only one on the planet that talks about these books in this way. Massive, massive, massive, and like one of the best ways you can set your show up for success is to make it unique and make it not just like, you know, a copycat show, just like all the other ones out there. And then also you were willing, once you got this opportunity because you plugged into this moment on TikTok, but, you know, it's not like you haven't been working, a full time job and doing like that week in the life is wild. So again, Kudos to the two of you, but what we'll call out is that, you know, you guys tapped into something in the moment and went all in, right? Yeah, well, and something we've been doing on TikTok in Instagram because actually our Instagram account has almost met up with our TikTok account. Our TikTok account definitely had more of that, like kicking it off the ground, but then we started going viral a lot more on Instagram. But I think that one of the big things is we post three to five times a day on Instagram and TikTok. Like we do not hold back. Now it's really easy for us because we just pull, I mean, I pull anywhere between like 15 to 25 clips per episode. So it's just like super easy for us to like put those in. We do memes, we do fun filters, stuff like that. So we, we make it a party to be quite honest. I don't know how else to say it. That has been really helpful, but that also is not for the faint of heart. It has been literally 12 to sometimes upwards of 16 hour work days for Lexi and I over the past 12 weeks. And I don't say that is like, I hate the like, who can be the busiest game? I don't really say it that way. Like her and I are actively working on ways to make it sustainable. I'll call it and we have an executive producer now who literally we call our sanity manager. Anytime we take on something new, he makes sure that we are not taking on too much and that we're not gonna get burned out. His name is Hayden, I love him, he's amazing. But having, like having that kind of workload has been not easy. I've been meaning to lean on people way more often than I ever have before. Like with my other show and my other business, I was working 20 to 30 hour work weeks. Like I had mastered the art of just chilling. It was great, I loved it. So it was quite a shift, but it was not a shift that felt difficult in a way that like we're gonna get burned out. It was, it was capitalizing on the moment and we knew that what we do now would pay off later and boy oh boy has it hella paid off. Right, well I mean it's just the beginning too. Like just the start. Because I imagine you guys are going to continue on with other books and other series. Like is that the plan that you're just gonna keep doing this? Yes, so our plan is to right now recovering Iron Flame, which is a sequel to fourth wing. But that is a 13 week deep dive. Once that is done, we're going to take a little bit of a break and then we're going into the Accord of Thorns and Frosis series, which is an incredibly popular romanticy series as well. We get asked, I'd say multiple times a day, minimum. What are you covering next? What are you covering next? What are you covering next? Despite it being literally everywhere on our social media, but that's fine, you don't mind answering it. So people are excited to see this have a long term effect and that was something that we were so excited and really blown away. And so it's about creating that raving fan, not them in the moment fan, you know what I mean? Yes, yeah, 100%, someone that's gonna, because you're creating a base of listeners that are going to just want to hear what you have to say about whatever, right? You get to that point where it's like, let's check in with them. Well, that's something we really needed to talk with our network about because we were, and so are, I'd say a little nervous about the pivot into the new book series, you know? There are some people in our current audience who have not read it. However, we do get a lot of messages of people being like, I heard that you're covering Accord of Thorns, so I'm gonna start reading it and like all that kind of stuff. So that's really cool to see that they're continuing on with us. But one of the things that we're really mindful of is making it so that it's us reading these books. It's not the books on the podcast. It's having people fall in love with Lexi and I, which I think we did not even on purpose really. And that's been a really cool side effect. But like having people really enjoying us as hosts, covering these books rather than just the book material itself. So that I do think that is gonna help make, you know, things like bonus episodes, we do Q&A episodes every now and again. And those are still really popular. So it's like even when we're not covering the book itself, and we're just talking about, you know, Lexi and I are Hogwarts house in Patronis's, which was a very popular question on that Q&A. Like that is still something people care about and want to listen to. So that has been, again, very unexpected, but it's something we're very intentionally doing going forward as we're kind of more strategic with this. I'm curious, was there a moment in the past three months where the way that you thought about the show, like really changed when you were like, oh man, this is gonna be a thing? When we got an email from a talent agency, and I, we've signed contracts on the lot to say which one, when we got an email from William Morrison Devar saying, hey, we see this being a thing. And we started sitting down with them and having conversations about what this might look like. And they started dropping things that were like, that's an option. Like, what are you serious? That was when it was like, oh, this is so much bigger than just a podcast. And is it terrifying to crap out of me? Apps to fucking live, but it's also really, really exciting as to see what this could be using YouTube. Honestly, YouTube is, I'd love to talk to you about that. That's been a huge part of not only our audience growth, but also a revenue stream as well for us, which has been really great. So one of the things that was really important to me, and this is something I heard over and over again and podcast movement actually that we attended this past year was YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. And I was like, that's a lot of extra steps. My guy, I don't know how I feel about that, but because I edit on a primarily video platform described, I was able to just basically upload it onto YouTube. And we kind of just did it as like a cast on it. Why not? Let's do that. But then the YouTube started going, I won't say viral, but we have a few videos that are like 20,000 plus views and stuff like that. So it's like those started really getting up there and I think we're just shy of 8,000 subscribers on there. So stuff like that really started taking off. And we actually have a lot of people who say, we would rather watch the show because of the banter, because of how animated Lexi and I are with the material. We have people who would say they'd rather watch the show, and we wanted to be able to have that as an option. And I'm really, really glad we did. But that has been really, really helpful for growing the show. Incredible. And is that monetized? It is. You mentioned how you are posting. What'd you say? Like three to five times a day on social media. So can you talk a little bit about just like what your process is there? It sounds like it's a lot of repurposing. Like when you talk about your weekly cadence, like how much of the micro content in social media falls into that? A lot. A lot of it. I'd say, because most of my evenings are spent doing outlines or editing stuff like that. My days are spent primarily doing social media content. So we have numerous different types. We have the podcast clips, like I mentioned, and those I just pull from the episode, but I highly tailor them to social media. So any breaths, any micro pauses, I edit everything out, especially just with the pace of TikTok. It is fast talking. So I want to make it so it's as easy to capture their attention as possible. I also make it where it's just the juiciest little bit. So if we go on a side tangent, I cut everything out. So a five-minute clip can suddenly become a 45-second clip. I also make sure that it's only the juiciest part to the episode. So those are really the tactics of just that. Then we also do memes. We use cap cut a lot. It's just a super easy thing. So we'll take little sections of the book and put funny memes to it. And those get shared a lot. So a lot of our followers have actually come, especially on Instagram, have actually come from those going viral, and people sharing them in their stories, and the people finding out, oh, this is a podcast, and then they convert two podcast listeners from there. But then we also do something in Lexi and I call this newscaster Nicole, where I am a lot more comfortable in front of the camera. I've been doing it for a lot longer. I also went to acting school. Lexi was a journalist. So she's a lot more behind the scenes. I'm a lot more in front of the scenes. And newscaster Nicole is basically, like for instance, when the Amazon TV show was released, it was me saying, hey, here's all the information, but doing it in a really entertaining way. So those also are highly, highly shared in stories to friends, all that kind of stuff. So that again, gives a lot of people with their eyes on our content, and then they become followers and then eventually subscribers as well. And I was not about high amounts of social media beforehand, to be quite honest, because it was a lot harder for me to talk about the content that I was doing in my business in this kind of fun, highly animated way, where it's so much easier when it comes to fantasy vangirls. So also the content's already written. There's two 500 plus page books about it. So I could literally flip to a page and be like, let's do a meme about this section. So it's a lot easier that a lot of that's already done for me, but those are not worth sleeping on. Like they are really, really helpful when it comes to building the audience that we have. It sounds like social media is like the nine to five and then making the actual podcast is the night time. You know what? I never thought about it that way, but honestly that's exactly it. And I'm still coaching on the side. I still have my other business, but I've basically taken it down to the bare, bare, bare bones. Like I've stopped taking on new clients, I've stopped doing newsletters, I've stopped posting on that social media, I've stopped that podcast. Like everything for that has pretty much halted except for tailoring to my clients. So I still have those on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but like Monday, Wednesday and Friday is fantasy vangirls. It's being in our discord, it's being with our Patreon members, it's designing merch, which is something that we started and it's taken off really well. It's having meetings with our talent, it's having meetings with our network, it's a lot of the business stuff and then the creative stuff is done at night right now. Yeah, you mentioned your Patreon, so can you talk about what you launched, what went well, maybe lessons learned? Yes, so we actually, we weren't planning on launching a Patreon until we started covering Akatar, the Accorda Thorns and Rose's book, which will be in the new year. But when we got our executive producer on, who basically was like, hey, I see what you guys are doing and I really wanna be a part of this, what can I do to help? We were like, well, what are the things that are going to be able to make this a full time job for us where we can devote all this time and energy to it? We're like, what's some low-hanging fruit? You know what, Patreon, Patreon is a really cool thing. We've had people asking us for it, let's just go ahead and start it. And so he actually really took the brun of it and he ended up creating everything in the background, he did all the setup for it, he did a wonderful job, I'm so grateful for him. So to be quite honest, but it comes to lessons learned, I actually don't know if I have any. The lesson learned is have someone who knows what they're doing, do it. Get help for it. And he made it a really seamless process. We did a lot of social media promo, we did a lot of baked in promo for it in the podcast itself. And I think in the first day, we got like two to three hundred people and we're just shy of a thousand now. So having those Patreon members, also we're doing a bunch of events. I think that's another thing that really helps. Like we're doing a trivia event this Saturday that Lexi and I are hosting and that's had a big spike in people signing up. So that like not just having it be a one and done, I think that that was a really, really, really important thing that we decided to do. It wasn't, yay, you signed up for Patreon. Dooses, it was hey, you signed up for Patreon. Let us nurture you. Because when we launched new merch, they are the ones who immediately sign up for it. We're talking about a live tour next year. When we do that, they're gonna be the ones who are front row and center. So we wanna make sure that they know how much we love and appreciate them every single day. We also have moderators on our discord. That's been really, really helpful. So we have people who just raise their hands and we've actually become really good friends with them now. So like having, having help has been a really, really, really big thing when it comes to launching that Patreon. Yeah, amazing. Have there been any surprises about what it's like to have a show reach this level? Yes, there have, type two stories. So when the midnight premiere happened for Iron Flame, Lexi and I had in the lead up to it, mention on the podcast. This was still when it was a little bit smaller. We were mentioning like, you know, we're gonna be at the Denver midnight release, all this kind of stuff. And then we were on a Facebook group and it was like, hey guys, just so you know, the fantasy fan girls are gonna be at this, well, it was like a blast of where we're gonna be. And I was like, oh my God. So we actually had my husband come as like, just in case, like, oh yeah, literally our bodyguard. And it was amazing. Like it was awesome. We literally walked in and Lexi and I were like joking and she started laughing and we heard someone be like, the fantasy fan girls are here. They just heard Lexi's laugh and that was it. And you could, I mean, literally, we couldn't walk five steps without someone pulling us to the side asking for a photo. So in those very niche styles of events, it is, it is wild being a micro celebrity. I don't know how else to say it. Now, I was out to dinner the other day with a friend and I'm sitting there, I'm talking to her and someone came up to my table and said, are you fancy fan girls? And I was like, I'm sorry. What? I'm serious. So starting to get noticed in public has been wild, wild to experience. And there's a level of anxiety that comes with that. I'm not gonna lie, you know? Like going out grocery shopping, I look like a troll. It's not really the time I wanna take a photo with a fan. But like, there's certain things that come with that that have been really, really exciting and seeing their faces when I talk to them is just like the coolest feeling I've ever experienced in my life, signing a book for the first time was wild. Like, you know, all these like micro celebrity moments have just been insane, insane. That has definitely been the most surprising thing that's come out of this. That is so cool. That is so cool. It's wild, dude. That's so, I'm just beaming over here because it's just so awesome. Like, it's so deserved. And like, I said it before you guys have been so humble. And, you know, when you were in the program, you were one of the strongest action takers, like hard workers, like, so it's just, it's no surprise that you guys have been able to achieve this to me, but it's, so, like I said, I'm just beaming over here because it's just so cool to hear this. You joined a network. So, can you talk about how that went and what your considerations were? So, we jumped around a little bit, but we were also very much like, we know with the rate that we're growing, we are leaving money on the table by not having ads as a part of this. And so, one of the conversations we had with our talent agent was what is the network we need to sign with? Like, what the type of network I should say? And they basically laid out five to six networks that Hayden actually are executive producer, then went and met with, and then he would bring the information to Lexi and I. And it was pretty easy to tell which ones we were like, yes, and which ones we were like, oh, no, the big thing for us was someone who'd be able to keep up with us. We were growing at insane, insane amounts. And it's, it's teetered a little bit, but not much. Like, and we're still doing that. And so, by having someone who could basically help us build the plane while we're still flying in and the air was deeply important. So just by that qualifier alone, we could easily scratch off a few. Percentage splits was also another big one. There were some that were a little bit not as desirable as others. So those were quick qualifiers to next people out. And then also was just like, do you work well with our team? Do you have fun banter? Do you know what our type of show is? Basically, like, are there other shows on the network that we could do crossovers with and stuff like that? So we're actually with the Q-code network and love them. They literally hit the ground running with us, which was our big thing that we wanted. So signing with them, the big thing was they are also a fiction podcast network. They do a lot of fiction shows not only, but they have a lot of fiction shows on their network. So having us as also like the deep dive people, it just made sense. And so that was really awesome in having our talent agent really step in and be our guide for it. Cause we were just like, we don't know what we don't know. Like we are building the plane as we're doing this. And so having someone to really step in is like, look, I do this every day. Like let's talk about it. That was really helpful. So I would say, know what the values that you want out of a network are. For us, it was the monetary split. It was the speed and being able to roll with us as quickly as we roll as well. And also it was, do we fit in with the network itself? Because there were a few that we looked at, but then we looked at their roster and we're like, oh, we're just not, we're just not on the same, like even categories. Now we didn't want to have competition necessarily, but we didn't want it to be like so politely opposite where we couldn't do like any crossovers. We couldn't see ourselves in the network. Also, knowing that the ads sales team is going to be selling your stuff. Having a network where you're in a similar category was helpful because they know how to sell our show. Easily, it's why we've turned around ads very, very quickly. And also, they're just really good at their jobs. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So I'm just curious, the podcast listening to this show that hasn't really, they may or may not have found traction yet. Maybe speak to yourself a year ago, right? As a podcaster, from having experienced what you've experienced for the last three months, what advice would you want to send back? I'm an overachiever, so I'm going to do multiple pieces if that's all right with you. Big thing is go back to the drawing board. Go back to the drawing board with a clear mind. It's really easy to be biased. We live in our show. We are the birth of our show. But go back with a mind that is completely blank and ask yourself over and over, does this make sense? Does someone know exactly what this is right off the bat? And do the nitty-gritty dirty work. It was like three to four weeks. I think it took me to go through every video and really do the work and do all the meetings with people and all that kind of stuff. And I would not have traded those three weeks for anything. That was really, really useful times, well spent. So yes, we high achievers, especially I'm assuming a lot of people who listen to this podcaster, very high achievers, we tend to not want to go backwards, but it's not going backwards. It's laying the concrete foundation. So by the love of God, if I had not done that, I do not think I'd be sitting here today. The other thing is don't sleep on social media. Do not sleep on social media. Do need to post five times a day. That might be a little insane. Because again, we were capitalizing on the moment, but there's people on social. And if anything we've learned from this experience is that people have no problem moving from TikTok or Instagram to a podcasting or a YouTube platform. It's just getting their attention where they want to know more and they're interested and they want to explore more. I think that those are the two biggest pieces of advice I'd give to someone. Yeah, that's awesome because earlier today, I was like the two things I want to make sure we ask about our premise and social media and so those are the two things. I'm not blown smoke here. That is 100% what I, the reason that the show is what it is today. Now, obviously, yes, we had a very niche of our own show having it more unique. I'd say absolutely throw that in there. But at the end of the day, it's fun and our listeners hear that. So yeah, I think that's another big one too. Incredible. Last question. What on earth did you tell your family at Thanksgiving this year? Well, so, our parents knew that this was a thing and they've been following along from the beginning but to be quite honest, they've been like, oh, that's really cool. That's very exciting. When I told them like, oh, we've been approached by a talent agency, they're like, oh, that's cool. That's fine, yeah, sure. And then when I finally was like, yeah, WMI did it it it that. And my dad does a quick Google search. He goes, do you mean a million Morrison Devar? And I was like, yeah, he goes, you mean like Adele and Hugh Jackman's talent agency? That's when you're talking out. And I'm like, yeah, this is like a month after we signed with them, by the way. They were like, oh, my God. So I think that the big thing, they're so excited. They don't really know how to react, which is so sweet. And it's really cute. They're just over the moon. Now, it is funny because our show is not, it is an R rated podcast for many different reasons, mainly because these books have some spice in it. So we have a very unwritten rule that, mom and dad, you are not allowed to listen to this kind of stuff. Oh, my God. I never even thought of that, that's not funny. We had some very interesting family conversations with people who are not our parents. And I'm like, I don't want to have that conversation with anyone who I'm very closely related to any kind of. Well, here's to a future of some day having that conversation with mom and dad. Oh, my God. Can't wait. Yeah, well, Nicole, you've been so generous. One more time, congratulations to you. It is so well-deserved. It's been so inspiring to watch super, super proud of what you've done. And just to be beginning, I can't wait to see where you guys go with this. Thank you for being the concrete that was the possibility that this even happened. I truly, I said this to you in a call not too long ago, but I'll say it here on air. Like, I truly do not think I would be sitting here today if it weren't for you to grow the show. And you came in just at the right time that I needed everything that you were putting down and it was so helpful. It's still so helpful. And just for all you do, thank you. It is in freaking valuable. I'm literally living my dream thanks to you. So thank you very much for what you do. This is so cool. Thank you. And yeah, this made my day, made my wake and looking forward to this conversation. Nicole, thank you so, so much for sharing your story with us here on Grow the Show. Thank you for having me. Thank you.