133: How Being Specific and Focused Can Catapult Your Podcast Success

If you want to be ultra successful as a podcaster and you want to achieve the same level of reach as your favorite podcasting influencer, then there is one thing that you can do today that I believe will exponentially raise your chances of getting what you want. And in this episode, I'm going to explain exactly what that is and hopefully set you on a quicker and easier path to podcast audience growth and monetization. This is Grow the Show, the podcast to grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Schmidland. I'm your podcast growth coach and I'm here to make it easier for you to grow and monetize your podcast. This is your first time hearing of me. I've been a full-time podcaster for five years. I've worked directly with over 400 podcasters to help them grow and monetize. And my own podcast have generated over two million revenue from my businesses over the past three years at the time of this recording. I don't say that to brag. I just say that to show you that I actually do have experience in this field for myself and for others. And today, I want to share a hack that has served me and my clients really well because it has helped me to one grow my show faster. But two, it's helped make it more clear on how I can have the same level of success of the podcasting influencers that I idolize like Tim Ferris and Alex, and Amy Porterfield and Pat Flynn to name a few. So what is that hack? It's a mindset hack. Well, recently I had a couple of one-on-one calls with podcasters who were both insanely smart individuals. And so I'll talk about the first one. He has accomplished a ton in his life. He's a successful attorney. He's served in the military for two years. He's in incredible shape. He's recently become a father and he's crushing all of that. And on top of it all, he has launched and been impressively consistent with a podcast. He's an extremely high level dude with a lot of talent, a lot of drive and a lot of energy. Here's the problem though with his podcast. He is struggling mightily and he can't seem to get any traction with his podcast. And if you're hearing this, you know who you are. I promise you it won't be like this forever. He has gotten amazing guests on the show. People have written books. People have accomplished and amazing things built incredible companies. People have so much amazing experience and perspective to share. And yet despite this, he cannot get traction and he doesn't know why. So why is it? Well, I get this a lot. I come across tons of podcasters who have cool shows, interview amazing people. The host is incredible and they have no traction. They can't get past the friends and family zone of 150 ish downloads per episode. And so the first thing I do when I encounter this is I want to check out the podcasters content and their feed and there's one problem that I look for right away and sure enough. I pulled up this podcasters feed immediately saw this problem and immediately knew why this show wasn't going to get any traction until this podcaster made a couple of changes. Now what's crazy is that I had a conversation with that podcaster in my very next call that same day, I spoke to another podcaster who was stuck. She's another person who's extremely accomplished, very smart, corporate leader, launched a podcast, able to land world class guests from all walks of life and guess what problem she was having. Yep, no traction. So I pull up her feed, looked for this one problem, boom, instantly knew why she couldn't get any traction. Now what's incredible is that both of these podcasters, different ages, different walks of life, both really impressive people, but for different ways. And both of these podcasters when I pressed them on this problem, they both powerfully and actively resisted me on it. And they resisted that the problem that I saw was actually a problem, which by the way, what I found for me is that in life, the thing that I'm resisting doing the most is the thing that holds the key to everything I want in life time and time again. So I don't know, it's worked for me. If there's something that you're resisting heavily in life, the most, you'd probably change your life and get everything you want if you just get past that resistance. Anyway, both of these podcasters powerfully resisted me on this and I push back. And I push them, I got them frustrated and both of them in a fit of frustration asked me the same exact question, crazy, literally two hours apart. So I know you're thinking like, enough already, what is the problem? What are we talking about here? What is the problem? What were they resisting? What was the question that they asked me? Well, here is the problem that I saw with these two really impressive people in their podcast. When I opened up their podcast feed immediately, I saw that their show was about way too broad of a topic and it was not catered to any specific type of person. There was no specific mission behind the show. Both hosts were really excited about the conversations that they got to have with amazing people. But there was no mission and there was not a specific avatar that these people were trying to help or a specific problem that they were trying to solve. There's no mission behind the show. Both shows were vaguely about success. They're about living your best life. They're about achieving big things, sharing inspirational stories. Both shows had on truly impressive guests. But the problem is that they brought on guests from all walks of life to discuss wide ranging topics. Now that might surprise you to hear me say that that's a problem because a lot of podcasters say with pride that their show is about everything. It's about tons of different topics, different perspectives, blah, blah, blah. I'm telling you right now that that is the death knell for podcasters that are just building their audience for the first time. The more broad and vague and wide ranging your podcast is, the less your podcast will deeply resonate with an individual person. The less people will hear their truth and the less your podcast will become people's favorite show because every episode is so wide ranging that each individual person might be a little bit interested in a handful of episodes. And so they're not going to come back ravenously listening and consuming your 30 to 60 minute podcasts every week. So for that reason, wide ranging broad appealing to the masses is bad. Now I would say that literally 70% of my time as a podcast growth coach isn't spent on growth tactics or monetization tactics. It's spent convincing podcasters to just get more specific with what they're doing. The more specific you are with your avatar and your shows mission, the easier it will be to grow. It's literally the hardest work that I do because everybody especially the people who are really smart and successful push back really hard, which I get they're confident they have a very clear vision. And it's not obvious to them how impactful it is to get more specific and speak to a specific person and they just don't know yet how literally much easier their life will be if they just do that. So it's exhausting for me, but it's the work and I love doing it and so I will continue to do it. So let's go back to these two podcasters. So with each of them, I started taking them through the space of showing them how while I get that they love making their show and they love that they get to talk to all these incredible people from all over the world who have done such amazing things and the podcaster gets to talk about all the things that they're interested in. I may clear them like look, I understand that you love making the show, but we need to make a show that people love listening to every single week and people do not love listening to a show that's totally random and that doesn't resonate deeply with them. So both of these high level individuals started pushing back. We went back and forth a bit and then I pushed them more and they both in a moment of frustration asked me my favorite question that I get asked during these conversations. So what will happen is the podcaster will be like, I'll be like, you got to get more specific. You can't make your show about anything. You have to pick a lane. You have to pick a mission. And then they'll just be like, well, what about so and so their show sounds just like this. And the so and so is they'll name somebody that has a massive audience that they admire that they love that they want to be like I've heard Lewis House. I've heard Jay Shetty. I've heard Mel Robbins. You know, these types of people that have these big wide audiences and can speak super broadly. And they have a great point. They're like, you're telling me that this doesn't work, but these people have these shows and it works. And I know it works because I love that show. Right. And I say, aha. Yes. Their show is that way today. But let me ask you this. And this is the whole point of this episode. You're pointing out what that person does today. You were looking at Mel Robbins's audience now. You're looking at Jay Shetty's audience now. You're looking at Alex Harmozi. You're looking at all these people who have these broad shows. But do you know how the person got there. Right. So you're on chapter one of your audience journey. They're on chapter 30. So you're comparing your chapter one to their chapter 30. But do you know what they did when they were in their chapter one. And usually that's when the podcast I'm talking to will kind of relax a little bit and they'll be like, they'll slip into some curiosity rather than combativeness. And they'll say, actually, no, I don't know what they were doing to which I say, I know you don't. And that's okay. It's totally fine. But if we're going to compare ourselves to others, we must compare our chapter one to their chapter one. It does not serve us to compare our chapter one to their chapter 30. Now, I've had this conversation so many times that I've actually begun to memorize the chapter ones and twos and threes of the famous creators that other people want to be like. And here's the news. Virtually, I can't speak absolute because I'm sure there's one that'll be the exception of what I'm about to say. But in my experience, what I found is that virtually every famous creator that I come across that is admired got to the place where they can have a podcast that interviews people from all walks of life and discuss is a wide variety of topics. And they got there in one of two ways. I don't have data behind this. It's anecdotal. But what I found is that 90% of those creators got there one way and then like 2% of them got there another way. So what are these two ways? Well, the 2% way, some creators that have massive audiences that get to speak broadly. They got there by getting volume right away. What does that mean? Well, it means that that creator was put in a position where they were able to virtually right away instantly have access to a massive audience. They had a lot of people who are consuming their stuff right away. And so they were able to speak broad right away because they just had volume from the start. And there's really two ways that I see that that happens. Wait number one is that the creator early on got access to gatekeep traditional media reach right. So Oprah not taking anything away from what Oprah has achieved believe me. I'm not to do that. But what's true is that Oprah after her trials and tribulations. Yes, she was put on a day time TV talk show that got her access that immediately put her in the living rooms of millions of people Tony Robbins speaks super broadly. He did 10 years of infomercials in the 90s were infomercials which is pumped down people's roads in the 90s every night tons of volume right and mass and traditional media Dave Ramsey speaks pretty broadly. I mean, he's got his you know specific things, but he speaks about you know financial literacy. Well Dave Ramsey stumbled into having a radio show. He was helping people at his church with financial literacy. He was invited to do an interview on the radio about it. And it just so happened that two weeks after that interview the host of that program quit and the station offered the program to Dave and the boom he was immediately in tons of people's ears because he was on the radio and back then everybody listen to the radio. I'm retelling that story second hand. I might get some of the details wrong, but that's kind of the thing. I think Dave Ramsey would agree like he kind of got thrust into this spotlight. So that's the first way is traditional media where someone just gets put on the tonight show and boom a million people right then and there right or the person managed to go viral on social media or online and they were able to to their credit capitalize on that virality right. And so what am I saying here? I'm basically saying people who did not already have an audience were able to speak about broad topics that apply to everybody by being able to go viral and capitalize on that. So Mel Robbins is one of those Mel Robbins did a Ted talk and that Ted talk went viral on YouTube got millions and it's the one about the five second rule. It got millions and millions of hits and then that thrust Mel Robbins into the career she has now again I don't know the full full story like I'm not part of Mel Robbins's team that's my understanding of it feel free to correct me from wrong. But I'm pretty sure that that's how it went Ted talk goes viral boom gets a book book goes viral boom Mel Robbins can have a show talking about anything there are other creators today who have taken advantage of going viral on short form media right tiktok Instagram reels YouTube shorts and that has been possible since about 2020. So you see people whose tiktok audience blew up that gave them massive volume really quickly and they were able to speak to broad topics like success or motivation or whatever right so those are the 2% of successful creators who in my opinion were able to talk speak broadly quickly because they got access to tons of volume fast. So those are 2% of successful creators in my opinion trying to do what they did is not a good strategy because that involved luck and I'm sure these people would agree with me they had a moment of luck where they got access to a huge audience via traditional media or they happen to be on social media in a season where people are going super viral because of anybody remembers social media between 2015 and 2019. There was no virality stuff didn't go viral really like it was really hard to grow on social media but then tiktok came around and now every social media has virality. So anyway I'm not saying that these creators did not work hard that they did not earn their audience because you and I would both probably throw up if we found out how much work they actually put into fully capitalizing on that luck so again not taking an ounce away from those creators they've earned every second they deserve every second of what they do. But I'm also willing to bet that those creators would be the first to agree with me that luck played a little bit of a role in their ability to jump straight into talking about broad topics right that's the thing it's not that look how to do with everything it's that they got the jump right into talking about broad topics not specifically to a specific avatar quickly because they got volume and reach. So what about the other 98% in my opinion well the rest of those creators who today have big broad audiences 98% is my guest they did not start out speaking to everyone they did not start out talking about everything to everyone whatever they want right they generally. Either focused on a specific problem and solved that problem for people and nothing else for three to five or more years or they solve the broad problem yes but they served a specific avatar for a short time and that specific group of people they crushed it and then they were able to graduate to talking about whatever they want with everybody right. So here's what I want you to do think of one to three creators you idolize whose big broad audience you aspire to have and then what I want you to do is I want to compare your chapter now to their chapter now right so compare your chapter one or two or three to their chapter one two or three fire up Google search for that creator's story. Find podcasts where that creator talks about their journey read their LinkedIn profile go through the history read their Wikipedia entry and notice how a lot of them spent two to ten or more years doing something really specific serving a specific person. Or they had a moment of luck and got access to massive reach before they did something really really specific first and so let me just rapid fire tell you some of the crazy specific things that big time creators did. Before having a big broad audience because as I said I have this conversation all the time and people will say what about this person what about this person what about this person I'm like yep they did this they did this they did this so Tim Ferris will start with Tim Ferris Tim Ferris got famous. From his book the four hour work week right the book hit New York Times best seller the question is how did he do that Tim's publisher actually refused to promote the book at all. So he was somebody who had no he had a blog audience but he didn't have a huge audience and so he was reliant on promoting the four hour work week himself. So what did he do well he focused on a specific avatar so he went and got himself featured on a bunch of blogs that spoke specifically to startups in San Francisco. Only those people now he had a book that could apply to anybody but he applied it to a specific avatar he blew up in San Francisco and that buzz then carried his book to be New York Times best seller status which then blew him up and allowed him to have a show where he talks to anybody about anything and by the way he still has a mission behind the show he still says my job is to deconstruct the habits of millionaires and billionaires or whatever so he even he has a mission right. Jay Shetty is another one that I hear all the time. Jay Shetty was hired by the Huffington Post to make videos about relationships right area Huffington camera crossed him hired him plugged him into the Huffington Post boom volume. Mel Robbins when viral with a Ted talk boom volume Tom bill you spent a decade or more I don't even know how long it was but spent a long time focusing on health focusing on building quest protein bars and the show impact theory used to be called inside quest so he spent a decade or more doing one specific thing. Now he expanded an impact theory gets to talk to all these different people wide rock walks of life but again even he has an unbelievably specific mission of exposing everybody to a growth mindset before the age of 14 or whatever it is. Extremely specific Lewis houses another one. What about Lewis house. Do you know what he did for five years five years. All he talked about was how to grow your LinkedIn he was the LinkedIn growth guy before he was greatness school so for five years he did a webinar every week that sold a course on how to grow your LinkedIn after five whole years he sold that company and then he started school of greatness where he could talk more broadly right. Amy Porterfield spoke about Facebook ads for a long time James clear the author of atomic habits. What did he do atomic habits is a book that applies to everybody but he didn't have a huge audience yet so how does he get the traction he focused on an avatar he sent the book to crossfitters crossfitters blue atomic habits up at the beginning. Alex Armosey the guy who has hit the scene and taken over the world for the past two years what did he do before 2022 when he started blowing up. Jim's he talked about he did gyms micro gyms he didn't all he talked about was how to grow gym for five years Gary Vaynerchuk what did he do before he was Gary Vaynerchuk what did he talk about why all he talked about that was it was wine why library we're talking about wine right. There's countless more examples and I challenge you try to find a creator who did not spend time focusing on one specific thing for a while and crushing that before going broad or they were able to start broad and they didn't have go viral on social media or get access to traditional media volume right. But to me that's the game and that's the formula so if you're somebody you know if you have a show that's about something super broad like success mental health living your best life et cetera et cetera and you're not seeing traction. I believe it's that because you don't currently have enough volume to speak that broadly meaning in order for that to work you need a lot of people to check out your show because most of them are not going to watch on. And it's just through sheer volume and sheer hundreds of thousands of millions of people seeing it that enough people latch on to you to make a significant audience right. So my theory is now again I've only been at this for five years but this is all I've done I don't have any kids like I've only studied podcast growth for five years in my whole life. So what I see now and I may disagree with this in the future but I see it basically is look if you want to speak broadly. And have a show that is not super specific in its mission or super specific in its avatar you have to do one of these things either number one you have to achieve fast massive volume by either getting a gate kept spot in traditional media. Going viral on social media or brute forcing outbound I know certain creators who right now are on the top of the Apple charts and their show is broad and how did they get there they spend three years sending literally a hundred to 300 linked in DMs every day for three years a thousand days 200 DMs a day check out my podcast check out my podcast 200 DMs a day for a thousand days volume right so either you speak broadly and you gotta somehow achieve volume or the other route is that you decide a mission or an avatar and focus on serving that specific avatar emission for at least two to five years minimum and crush it with that become the go to just become the person for that which side note which is what I'm trying to do with podcasting like you come to me for podcasting who knows in the future I might talk more broadly about audience growth or business growth or whatever it is but for now I'm locked into this and that's okay right because that specific group of people carry you above and beyond your wildest dreams. So those are the two options my recommendation is go with number two because that relies way less on luck the luck of going viral the luck of you know getting hired by the having to post or getting put on a radio show or TV or whatever. And it's you have more control over it and when you have a smaller pond you can become the top fish in that pond and then you can move into a bigger pond and speaking more broadly about things it's just a way more tried and true path. It relies less on being in the right place of the right time and less on luck or if you really truly are like no I want to talk about whatever I want to talk about then you need to switch your audience growth strategy and you need to learn to go viral DM 200 people every single day for the next three to five years about your podcast or start applying to jobs at big media companies who have volume built in and above all else again for the creators that you idolize in the person that you're like how can I have what they have just spend 30 minutes. Researching their story and find out what their chapter one looked like find out what the inflection point was what did they do for five years that right now you have no idea that for five to 10 years that's what they devoted their life to this like super crazy specific thing Pat Flynn was architecture right he had an architecture course. Right so I'm willing to bet that you'll be surprised if it isn't a creator that I've named already and I'm willing to bet that it's going to make you be like oh okay that makes sense and then it's something that you can actually model. So that's it this one was a little bit more pie in the sky I hope it helps you to understand basically what the paths are and that if you're somebody who is struggling with the show that's super broad talking about mental health or music or success or whatever it is. It's doable but you have to find out how to get massive massive volume we're talking thousands hundreds of thousands of people to check out your thing and know that most of them are not going to stick around because broad appeal means no depth. It doesn't appeal deeply to one person it appeals a little bit to a lot of people so that means you just need so many people to check out the thing before you get any significant audience growth. So that is the one task that I have for you look at your idolized creators go back to their story understand how they got where they are today compare that to your chapter one and I think not only will you have something tactical you can try to do. But it also make you feel a little bit better when you're running into struggles with a super broad audience so that's going to do it for this episode of Grow the Show. My name is Kevin Schmidland I am your piecast growth coach I'll see you in the next one.