127. How to Monetize Your Podcast by Launching a Course, with Amy Porterfield

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Looking around social media, I thought I'd make $100,000, because it looked like everyone else's make $100,000 plus doing what they loved. So I thought, I've got this. That is Amy Porterfield, and this is what happened the first time she ever launched an online digital course. It was a disaster. I cried for a week. It was a rough time. But those rough times didn't last, because since then, she's grown an eight-figure-plus business built on digital courses that help other people launch their courses, and those people get results like this. So here he is in his 95 job, creates a side business with this digital course, makes over $40,000 his first time out. And today, Amy's here on Grow the Show to help you do the same. In this episode, you're going to learn three things. First, Amy will unveil her course launch blueprint that'll guide you through every stage of the process, from brainstorming your course idea to its grand launch. And I know your audience likes specifics, and I'm going to show you step-by-step how to do that. Next, she's going to lay out exactly what you need to avoid doing when launching your course so that you don't also cry for a week. One of the biggest mistakes I see is people think that just because they have a course in a sales page, the bad is enough. And I'm here to tell you that is absolutely not enough. And finally, Amy will unveil her course launch playbook specifically for podcasters so that you can launch a course that turns your listeners into buyers. This is something I'm so excited that I get to teach that I've never, ever been able to teach before. All that and more with Amy Porterfield is coming at you right now. Let's go. This is Grow the Show, the podcast to help you grow your podcast. My name is Kevin Tridlin, and I am a seven-figure podcaster whose mission is to make it stupid easy for you to grow your podcast audience and monetize to the max. Today on the show, online marketing legend Amy Porter field is going to give you the step-by-step roadmap to monetizing your podcast by launching a digital course. So if you're ready to nail your course launch and monetize your show like never before, then stick around to this episode of Grow the Show. My name is Amy Porterfield, and I am an ex-corporate girl turned accidental entrepreneur. I have built an eight-figure-plus business helping people take their knowledge, know how and skill set and turn that into profitable digital courses. Amy, thank you so much for joining us here on Grow the Show today. I love it for you to kick us off by taking us back to way back when when you launched your very, very first digital course. What was the situation? What was your business like and what did you learn? Oh, so when I think about that first launch, I was so nervous but I was desperate to move out of one-on-one consulting and coaching because I knew that there's only so many hours in a day and only so much money I can make and only so many people I can help when I'm doing one-on-one work trading time for money. And so I started to think about creating a digital course. I didn't know how to do it, so I thought I would piece it together and I pieced together my first digital course and looking around social media, I thought I'd make $100,000 because it looked like everyone else was making $100,000 plus doing what they loved, so I thought I've got this. So I launched my first course and I made a whopping $267 in profit, which the sad thing is my course was $297, so I didn't even cover one unit once you backed out a few thousand dollars of expenses. It was a disaster. I cried for a week. I thought I wasn't cut out to be an entrepreneur. I thought I'd have to go back and grovel back for my job because I had just left, and so it was a rough time, but I know exactly why it didn't work. Do you want me to share that with you? Please. Okay, so number one, I didn't have an audience. I didn't have an email list. I didn't understand that your email list is one of the most important assets of running an online business, and so I didn't have anyone really paying attention, so I lacked the intentionality of building an audience. The second thing was I didn't have a 10% edge in what I was teaching, and here's what I mean. When I teach my students to create a digital course, I always tell them you need to have a 10% edge, which means you're 10% ahead of those you serve and those you will teach so you can show them the way. A 10% edge means you've gotten results for yourself or for someone else, a family member, a client, a customer, so you have results under your belt, and now you're willing to build on a roadmap and teach other people how you got there. I taught people how to launch a book using social media. I knew social media well. I had been working in social media for years. I had never launched a book in my life, but I felt like desperate to be niched on something, so I just chose book launching. I should have never done that. I didn't have a 10% edge. So I learned from my mistakes. I didn't grovel back from my nine to five job. I went out and tried to fix it and choose a topic I was more proficient in, and I've gone on to have major success with courses, but that first one was a huge failure. Yeah. So a couple of questions based on what you said there. 10% is a specific number. Do you think that like is there any drawback to having a larger than 10% edge? Absolutely not. That's the minimum, and so if a lot of my students have way higher than 10% edge, in the sense that like for example, one of my students, he's an accountant, and he worked in an accounting firm, and he was able to get interviewed on a few podcasts from resellers, people that were selling on Etsy, Amazon, Poshmark, these different sites, and he was getting tons of questions about how to do your taxes when you are a reseller. And so he thought, you know what? I'm getting a lot of questions about this. I should create a course about this. So he had much more than a 10% edge. This was his profession, but it was in a very specific area, taxes for resellers, and he thought, who's going to buy a boring tax program? But then he got so many questions about it. He said, I'm just going to try it. So here he is in his 9-5 job, creates a side business with this digital course, makes over $40,000 his first time out, because he really had to grasp a good understanding what people wanted, and he had knowledge in it. Got it. Now you also mentioned that you felt pressure to have a niche early on. Yes. We all feel that pressure when we're starting out because, you know, people like us are like, you have to niche down, you have to niche down. Yeah. So I'm so curious with you having served so many online entrepreneurs through the years. What do you see now about niching down early on that you feel like when we're early on, we don't really see? Yeah. So you're right. You and I both, we are teaching people to niche down. I think you get lost in the sea of online noise if you are general and for everybody. But in the beginning, you kind of got to figure out what you're good at, what you love, where your spot is. And so I don't believe you have to get that specific in the beginning and ease into really dialing it down. And the way you niche down is you experiment, maybe with something a little bit more general and see what people cling onto, what questions they're asking. But they really are hyper focused on when you come out with something. Let me give you an example. One of my first successful digital courses was called social media formula, or simple social media formula. That was my first course where I made $10,000. And that was very general, simple social media formula, also social media. And when I put that out, the most questions I got were around Facebook. Can you teach us Facebook ads? Can you show us how to put a Facebook marketing plan together? And I launched this course enough to know, oh, these questions are pretty common. They're coming up a lot. So my next course was a Facebook marketing course and boom, that's when the sales really started flooding in. But it took me a little while to niche down specifically into that. Yeah. So what's so exciting to me to have this conversation with you today is that you have been at the top of this field for so long. And I was listening to an episode of yours, a solo episode of yours earlier today that was from 2016. And you know, I've been podcasting for five years with back then. I was a corporate software developer. I'm like, my gosh, she's been doing this was so long. So based on the niche thing, as you go, you start general niche down by listening to your audience. But then I feel like then there's pressure to get more broad as you go. Can you speak to that and how you navigate this? Because there's other podcasters in the audience who have been at a niche for three to four years and are like, okay, like, do I go broad? Do I stick with this? Like, what do you have to say to them? So this is very much my personal experience, but I'm not a fan of going broad. And here's why. So over the years, I've been able to niche down to the point where I help people take their knowledge, know how in skill set and turn that into a digital course. And I've been doing this for 14 years. And that's a long time to be at this one topic. And in the beginning, it just was, like I said, general. And then I realized, wait a second, I'm really good at this. People are asking more about courses and webinars and launching. So I doubled down on that a few years in and I've stuck with it. And the reason I haven't gotten more general as I've gotten bigger and have a bigger audience is because I really think it's important for people to know what you're all about. So here's an example. If you were out in the world and you said, I want to create a digital course. Do you know anyone who can help me do that? I can guarantee my name will be in the top five. That is important. Not only that doesn't, that brings me a lot of money, but it also allows me to serve in a really big way to be known for something. And what I've noticed is when people get bigger, their ego kind of takes over and they want to be more general so they can get on the stages and get interviewed on podcasts for things bigger than what they're known for. But then they're losing that edge. I have an edge because I've stayed in my lane. Now here's the thing. Doing the same thing over and over again can get boring. And as entrepreneurs, we love variety. We want to try new things and we want to dabble in this and dabble in that. But my secret to success is I've always stayed in my lane. However, I've always been my own competition. How can I make this better? How can I do bigger things? I have competition with myself like I want to increase my next launch by 12%. That's our latest big goal. But also, I want to do webinars different this time. So I'm going into a launch in September. And I'm going into a studio with all the screens behind me and new ways to engage and prizes and it's a different experience. I'm selling the same program. I've been selling since 2019. But I'm making it more exciting and different and challenging myself in different ways. So I grow that's how I expand in my niche instead of going general and then getting lost again in the sea of noise online. Right. So you're able to because that entrepreneur desire to do new things doesn't go away. It sounds like you're saying is you need to just handle that into your lane and then you will have the best of both worlds. Yes, absolutely. Awesome. Okay. So let's bring it into the tactical again. Our listener is a podcaster who has an audience. They probably don't have an email list at all yet. So they have questions for you about whether that's important. But they don't really have an email list, but they have a podcast audience, you know, maybe several hundreds. Some even several thousand downloads for episode and they're like, okay, what do I do about this whole course thing? I know I want to create a course. I don't know where to start. How can we chunk this down for them? Okay. So can we talk about email list first? Are you cool? Please, please. Okay. Because I can't sugarcoat this and there's no magic bullet. You need an email list to have success with launching digital courses, memberships, masterminds, all the type of digital products. And quite honestly, if you want to talk about growing your podcast, grow your email list. I'm going to give you a little quick hint. I have over a million downloads a month on my podcast. And one of the reasons why we are so successful with that is because I email every Thursday morning letting people know I have a new podcast out. And once in a while when I'm promoting that email can't go out because it competes and I will see my downloads go down. That email really does matter because my audience needs a quick little nudge or reminder that I've got a new podcast episode out and social media is not enough for that. So I use my email list to make sure that my audience keeps coming back for more. And that's how I use my newsletter. Hey, I've got a new podcast. Here's why you're going to love it. So every single Thursday, Rainer Shine, that's how I use my newsletter. So if I didn't have that list, I wouldn't have as many downloads. But also the list makes growing your business so much easier. I always say the energy of your business is directly tied to the strength of your email list. Notice I didn't say size, the strength of your email list is it engaged? Are they opening up the emails? Are they clicking? All of that is important. Even if you had a thousand people on your email list, it could still be very valuable for you. And so we've got to start with an email list. And because I'm talking to podcasters, you have the best tool to grow your email list. So I believe that you should have your own advertisements on your podcast every single week. And your advertisement is for a lead magnet. Hey guys, I've got a brand new quiz coming out. It's all about XYZ. If you want to go take the quiz to find out if you're this or you're that, go to this link. And you can run that every single week at the beginning of your podcast in the middle or the end. Be your own advertisement. But use your advertisements not to make money, but to grow your list. Because once they're on your list, they're more likely to buy. So that's the number one thing. So growing that list will allow you to have an audience and ready to buy when you have a digital course. So list building to me is everything. Yeah. So couple questions about the tactics of maintaining podcast downloads with the email list. That email that goes out on Thursday, first of all, are you teasing what you talk about in the episode? Are you giving away some and like, what does the structure of that look like? I love this question. We are teasing. We are peaking curiosity. We are telling them what's in it for them. But with just enough curiosity that they cannot get enough from that email, they've got to click and go listen. And so yes, that's exactly what we do. Got it. And when you say your newsletter, do you consider that Thursday email your newsletter? I do. Yep. That's my newsletter. It is to promote my weekly podcast. And another way that we grow our list with the podcast is that I use many chat on social media on Instagram. So we've added many chat to our Instagram DMs. So how this works is I will make a video and say, Hey guys, so this is something I do every week. We call it a sneak peak. I'm direct to camera. I just recorded three today. It takes me a minute each time. I'm direct to camera and I'll say, Hey guys, I just recorded a podcast about how you should not be trading time for money and what to do instead. And I'm going to give you a case study that's going to blow your mind. So all you need to do is reply below 595. That's the number of the episode 595. I'll DM you instantly with a link to my podcast. Go take a listen. That's all it is every single week. If we do not put that on social, we will see a decrease in downloads. And so what happens with many chat is they type in 595. I've got it programmed on the back end of Instagram to send them a DM. Because I can't wait for you to take a listen. Here's the link. That's all it is. And so now I'm making it easier for them to find the link to go listen 100% that's so funny. I was looking at those earlier on. I'm like, Oh, I want to ask about that. But that's awesome. So okay. And it's many chat. I was like, man, do you have like somebody like monitoring all day? So it's automated. That's awesome. Yes. Incredible. Okay. So we understand. All right. Let's bring it back to horse line. So grow the show. Pro member Chris McDonald asks you, should you wait until you have a solid email list to launch? It sounds like you're saying yes. I'm saying yes, but I'm also saying you could do both at the same time. So as you create your digital course, you're also going to focus on growing your list. You could absolutely do both at the same time. You're using your podcast to grow your list with really cool lead magnets that you're advertising every single week. So you always have an opportunity to grow the list. And while you're doing that, which can be automated, you're also working on creating your course. So let's talk about some of the things you need to do to create your first digital course. The first thing is you need to come up with a great course idea. And I have this formula called the sweet spot formula to start kind of ideating what you might create. So I'm going to take you through it really quick. Perfect. There's four quadrants. And the first quadrant is your 10% edge. What are you good at? Where have you gotten results? So where have you gotten results for yourself or for somebody else, a customer, a client, a family member that you could put a roadmap together and teach exactly the steps you took to get those results. Now, they could be in your personal life. Like, I've never run a marathon in my life. And I woke up one morning and said, I'm going to do it. And within three months, I ran that marathon. This is how I did it. But it could also be like the example I gave you, the tax accountant that actually made a course about his expertise. But you want that 10% edge. So start thinking about what you're good at and where you've gotten results. And if you get stuck, text a few friends and family members. They will tell you what you're good at. Awesome. The second quadrant is thinking about who you want to serve. So we all kind of have an idea of who do you serve on your podcast? Who are you adding value to? Think about those people and ask the question, what are their challenges, pain points, or desires? What do they want that's aligned with what I can give them in terms of my value and my 10% edge? We want to marry the two. So what are the challenges, pain points, or desires of your ideal audience that you would like to attract? Marry those two. The third quadrant is the potential for profit. Where have people spent money on the topic you're thinking about? Are there books about it? Are there podcasts about it? Are there other digital courses? Are there masterminds coaching about it? And if the answer is yes, that is a great validator. We don't need to be first to market here. I would love for you to choose a topic where people are already making money in that area. And now you're going to bring your unique flare to that topic and attract your own audience. The fourth and final quadrant is what lights you up? What brings you joy? Now notice I did not say what is your mission or passion or purpose in life? We don't need to overthink this, but it needs to be a topic that you actually enjoy talking about because you're going to talk about it a lot. Imagine if I hated talking about digital courses, I'd be in big trouble. I talk about them every day. That'd be rough. So you need a topic that actually brings you joy. So again, the four quadrants of coming up with your initial idea, your 10% edge, the problem you're going to solve, where have people spent money in this area of your expertise and does it bring you joy? That's going to come up with your first idea. And then here's what you're going to do. This is something I'm so excited that I get to teach that I've never, ever been able to teach before, which is now you get to use AI like chat GPT as your course creation assistant. It's not going to do all the work. You still need a framework to figure out how to create a course and launch it, but you can plug in some prompts to get some ideas of how to flesh out this idea that you came up with. One of my students, she created an entire course on how to sleep train your toddler. She can type into chat GPT. One of the five questions most people ask about sleep training their toddler, boom, now she's got some content ideas that she can flesh out and play with to start coming up with her outline for a digital course. So I love pairing the sweet spot formula with an AI assistant to start rounding out your content. Right. Okay. So at this point, the podcaster has a pretty good idea. They've followed those steps. They're like, okay, I know what it is that I want to make. So grow the show. Remember, low asks, is it better to build the whole course in advance before launching or should you build the ship as you go or sell what's next? My favorite thing for first time course creator is to put together a really solid outline and get really clear on what you're going to sell. And then I want you to pre-sell it before you ever create any of the assets. And the reason for this is that ultimate validator is to see if people actually spend money on it. So we call this the first 10 where you're going to come up with the concept, get really clear on what it is you're offering and you're going to go out to let's say if you had a small email list or a social media following and say, okay, guys, I've got a brand new course that I'm creating and I'm going to give a major discount to the first 10 people who sign up and you can help give me feedback as I create the course over the next month or so. And so we do the first 10. They get a discount but they're part of the creation and it's just an ultimate validator and you get a little money in your pocket to put toward creating the course. Once you get those first 10 in, now you're creating the course from start to finish and that's when you do a real launch where you're launching to a bigger audience and you're selling it at full price. So there's a little bit of both in there. Yeah. So these folks get in with the discount and so it sounds like what you're saying is, do you like make the course and then give it to them and then launch it? Are you live launching it? Like how does that nitty-gritty work? I love these questions. So you are not creating the course. They're going to get the course when everybody else gets it. So the reason why they get a discount is they got to wait a little bit longer and you can let them know when the course is actually going to come out so you can set their expectations but you're just getting there by and making sure that there's true interest because let's say nobody buys. We're going to go back to the drawing board and figure out maybe my messaging was off. Maybe I didn't put this together in a way that's sexy enough for them to think, oh I really need this. So maybe you do a few course calls. This is something I teach in my program where you're going to get on a Zoom call and I have a list of questions that my students asked to understand where you might have missed the mark here. What is it that they need? What are they struggling with? What have they purchased in the past to really understand what you're creating? Go back to the drawing board, rework it and go back out again. Right. So what comes up for me is I'm like my biggest fear there would be that I collect the presales. I go make this course and then I deliver it and everything's just totally out of order and it just doesn't land. So is there anything that folks can do to make sure that the modules are the right order or how do you even structure the thing? Okay, so this is not a plug to sell my course but I do need to say something so I'm glad you asked this question. Sure. I worked for Tony Robbins for many, many years and I think the biggest lesson he ever taught me is that when you want to do something well and you want to profit from it and you don't want to waste your time, find somebody who's already done it before you and is willing to teach you step by step how they did it so you can fast track it. Honey and pecking all over the web trying to figure out for free how you might put together something like this is going to slow you down and likely send you down a rabbit hole you'll never come back up because you're going to be so overwhelmed. So my advice for that question and I'll give you some specifics of what to do. But learn from somebody who's gone before you. I think we need to normalize spending money on our business even when we're not making a lot of money yet in order to actually get to where we want to go. When I just left my Tony Robbins job and I didn't have a lot of money saved up, I spent $17,000 on a mastermind. I couldn't afford it so I asked for a payment plan then I had to hustle every month to get it to clients to actually pay for the mastermind. Best decision I made. The mastermind was great but I think the bigger lesson was I had skin in the game. It made me feel like my business and my ideas were legit and I was going to take this seriously. So investing in a training program or a coach someone who's gone before you is one of the smartest things you could do and I've never met a successful entrepreneur that didn't spend money to make money from the get go. So that's one thing to so that you don't feel like, oh my gosh, what the heck am I doing? This is a disaster. So when talking about I agrees to you, it's so crazy how every single time I come across an entrepreneur who's achieved big things, there was some investor that they made early on that really got them in the right room, got them talking to the right people and that's easy for us to say because we are that people for a lot of people but my question for you is what do you recommend somebody looks for to know that they're that they found the right coach or found the right mastermind, right? Because yes. People like us say that all the time like you got to invest, you got to invest. So I think it'd be useful to be like, here's how you know if it's the right person or group to invest in. What do you say? I love this question. I just had this idea. I should create a real about this. Like three ways to know if you've got the right mentor. Love it. Such a great idea. So the first thing is do they have a business? Now you're only going to see the front end. So it's a little tricky but as much as you've done your research and looked into it, maybe asked around, do they have a business like the one you would like to create or have they created something that is similar to what you'd like to create? So in the early days when I spent $17,000 on a mastermind, it was from a woman that had a business like the one I wanted to create. She was creating courses. She had awesome social media. She had an email list that was thriving. I wanted what she had. So do you want what this person has? So that's the first thing. Number two, do they live a lifestyle like the one that you would like to have? Meaning do they value family or are they, you know, a childless man or woman that never wants kids and that's what you want, right? Or do they take vacations and do they share behind the scenes? Or are they a hustle? Like do they love to hustle and you too love to hustle? Or do they value downtime and is that what you value? Make sure that their values as much as you can see online are matched or congruent with what yours are. So for example, I love Gary Vee. He is a hustle, hustle guy. Get the work done. Spend 20 hours a day working or whatever, answer every email or DM. I cannot do any of that. That is not my vibe. I wish it was some days, but it's not. So I'm not going to like follow everything he said as much as I respect the guy. So you gotta know what your vibe is and find someone that matches that. So that's number two. And number three, are they willing to teach you step by step what they do? Follow enough of their free content. If you listen to their podcast or you listen to some of their social media and they're very vague and big strokes, they're probably not going to get to the specifics of what you need. And so if you really want to learn how to create a course, create a mastermind, a membership, whatever it is, watch how they teach. And if they're going to give you specifics, that is golden. There's just too many people out there teaching broad strokes that you literally have a million questions after they teach. Be careful of that. Coming up, Amy is going to give you her specifics on the question that I asked, which is how the heck do you know what order to put your lessons in? Then she'll tell you exactly how to launch your course so that you can get the most cash in the door. And after that, she's going to share what she did earlier this year to double her podcast downloads from 500,000 a month to a million per month in just 30 days. Stick around, don't miss it. Welcome back to Grow the Show. Okay, so we are right in the middle of a conversation where Amy Porterfield is walking us through exactly how to launch, build and sell a course that can make tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. At this point, we've pre-sold the course to our audience. And now we need to start putting together the modules and the lessons. So, Amy, how can we do that in a way that makes the most sense? Well, you're looking for a roadmap. You're asking yourself, if I were to do this all over again, what's the first step I would take? What's the next step? What are the obstacles that I faced or my students or clients have faced that I need to teach at this point or at that point? And that you're putting together a roadmap of exactly how you got there in big chunks. First I did this, then I did this, then I did that. Those are your modules. Those are the big chunks that you're going to teach. Under each module are your lessons, which tend to be video lessons. It might just be slides and audio. You don't need to get on camera. Now under each module, let's say the first module for sleep training your baby is to understand, let's say, your daily routine to get clear on your daily routine. So now you have a few short lessons of how to get clear on your daily routine so you can decide when you're going to sleep train. I'm making it. I don't. I've never trained in my life. So now you have lessons under each module. And the trick is to make those lessons short and doable. Back in the day when I created courses 14 years ago, it was very common to have a video that's like an hour long. It was like no big deal. These days we do not do that. It's attention span is so short and you want to make them feel like they're getting momentum. So let's say you had a concept you wanted to teach under module one. It's going to take you 30 minutes to teach it. You're going to break it up into 10 minute videos. So it's easier for you to record, but quicker for your audience to get through and feel like they're actually getting to the finish line. So that's essentially how you're going to organize your content. Big picture modules, short videos are the lessons under the header, which is the module. So we have created an outline like we've created the steps, the activation points. Let's talk about launch. So let's say that the course is ready. We're a podcaster. We've started getting our email list going. So we started using a lead magnet. We listened to Amy. It's been a couple of months. What's next? Okay. So you've created this course and you're ready to put it out into the world. One of the things or the biggest mistakes I see is people think that just because they have a course in a sales page, so you need a sales page to sell your course, but that is enough. And I'm here to tell you that is absolutely not enough. And I'd be doing you a huge disservice if I said it was. Now if you have a huge audience, like I have a friend, her name is Lovey, and she just launched her course about how to publish a book. And she's like, Amy, I'm just going to email my list and put it out on social. And I want 100 people to buy this. It was the first time she put anything out like this. She has a huge audience. So she hit her goal and then some. Most people I work with do not have an audience at all. That would never work for them. So what you need is a selling vehicle. A selling vehicle is a webinar or a boot camp or a challenge, like a five day challenge. You need a vehicle that moves people into buying, but before they're ready to buy, they need to know they can know, like, and trust you, and that you actually know what you're talking about. So I love webinars. I've been doing webinars for 14 years now, and they still are as effective if not more than they were many, many years ago. And the reason why a webinar is a great way to sell a course is because a webinar is free. So you get people along with no barrier. Come to this webinar. I'm going to teach you XYZ. And I have this motto when I get on a webinar and I say no matter if they buy or not, they walk away today feeling excited, inspired, and driven to take action, no matter if they buy or not. So right away, my mind is not on. I hope I make a bunch of money, but I really need to serve. I promise some great free content. I better deliver. So for the first 40 minutes, you're going to deliver amazing content. And it's more of the what and the why. What is it? And why is it important? This concept that you're teaching. And then you slide into selling where you're now going to say your next perfect step now that you have this knowledge is to dive in and do it. Take action. And I'm going to show you step by step how to do that in my digital course. And so you've built trust and affinity with your audience. And now they're ready to take that next step with you. And if they don't buy on the webinar, you're going to see a huge surge of sales and your post webinar emails, email list is important. And your post webinar social media reminding them of why it's so important for them to take action and that you have the solution for them. So all the sales do not come in on that webinar, but it's the catalyst to get the sales in. Yeah. Super curious for so for somebody who is doing a webinar, is that something that you do like kind of on a regular cadence? And if so, my question is how do you inspire urgency to do the thing now and not just come to next week's webinar? Oh, love this question. Okay. So you have to decide are you doing a live launch or an evergreen launch? And I believe that anybody who wants to sell courses online, you start with a live launch. You become a really good marketer if you know how to live launch because in a live launch, it's a whole different energy. You're figuring out different technology. You're showing up. You're pivoting when you need to. You're getting instant feedback so you can think on your feet and change things as you need to. You become a better marketer. I am who I am because I have live launch for many, many years. Now, live launching is more stressful than evergreen, but you leave a lot of money on the table if you don't live launch. So my suggestion is when you have your course, you do like two live launches just to learn what you don't know yet and figure out what works and what doesn't work. And a live launch means you open a cart and like eight days later, you close the cart. So the urgency is this is your only chance to get into my course. You've got eight days. Let's go. And so you sell it for eight days and you close the cart. The urgency will increase your sales. It's a very important part of it. So you might do that two times, maybe one, one a quarter. And then from there, if you want, you move into evergreen, which is something else I teach in my program. Evergreen means that every single day you've got a webinar running on automation and the whole funnel is automated. You do not need to show up for any of it. And so I have one program on evergreen and one that I live launch and I really love the combination of both. But when you're live launching, you're just doing it for a short period of time. Got it. Okay. So we at this point host launch. Let's say the podcaster has launched their course. They've got a few folks in the course. What do they do? Just sit around and do nothing. Well, these people take this course or is there something better to do? Okay. So one thing that's important. And I think especially coming out of the COVID era is that personal touches mean something more so than they ever have. And so if you have a course for the first time, I'm going to encourage you to either do weekly live Q&A calls, zooms, Facebook lives, whatever it might be if you have a community. I'm going to encourage you to show up at least once a week to answer questions and be there. Or you could do office hours where you just are available on Zoom if anyone wants to show up and ask any questions. Or you could do Voxer or Slack. But I like a live component for a certain amount of time. So in my program digital course academy, I do nine weeks of live Q&As and I'm in the group on a regular basis for nine weeks because there are there's seven modules and I offer a few extra weeks just for people to play catch up. And so after those nine weeks, we graduate the course. You get to keep it forever, but I'm no longer live. And that's important as a course creator. You don't want to have to show up forever. But you choose a time that you're going to show up and go through the journey with them to me. That makes a really powerful course. Now my evergreen program is a list building program. And I don't have a community. I don't do nine weeks of lives or anything like that. But I do one year of Zoom live Q&As. So you pay $500 for my program. It's sold on evergreen. I do not show up live for selling it or promoting it. But once you're in, once a month, you get a link and you can join me on Zoom and ask any questions you have about this building. So there's still a live component. And that's important to me. Gosh. That's awesome. How many people are on those AMAs? Usually just a few hundred. So it's not like thousands and thousands. And they're recorded. So a lot of people will just catch the recording. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Huge question. I'm sure you get all the time. How much do I charge? And in my experience, when people ask this question, it's how much do I charge? Well, it depends on this. That's the other thing. Yeah, but how much do I charge? Well, yeah, but how much? Okay. Great. Great. Thank you. Okay. So when you want to figure out how much you're going to charge for your course, you need to first figure out what type of course you're going to create. There are three types of courses that work really well. The first one is a starter course. This is like a mini digital course. It's where you're just going to give them the basics just to get the momentum they're looking for. You're not promising huge results, but you are showing them how to get started. Like a 101 podcasting course, just everything they need to get started, but not how to promote it, not how to get tons of downloads, not how to get collaborations, nothing like that, just how to get started. So if it's a starter course, we usually charge anywhere from 100 to $200. That's the sweet spot for a starter course. The second type of course is a spotlight course where you take one area of your expertise, such for you, maybe it's podcast sponsorship, how to get sponsorship, and you go deep with that one topic. Because you're going deep with one topic, you tend to be able to charge more anywhere from $200 to $500 for a spotlight course. Here's an example. One of my students, he's a photographer, and he created his first course on flash photography that looks like natural light. Very specific. The guy knows 100 things about photography, but that one topic kept coming up again and again. So he created a spotlight course. He had 100 people on his email list and a small social media following. He made $12,000 with this first launch because it was a topic people really wanted to learn about. So that's a spotlight course. Then the third type of course is the Mach Daddy of All Courses. It's a signature course where you are promising a big transformation from start to finish. You're going to teach them everything they need to know to get big results. So when I teach people how to create and launch a course, that's a signature course. That's why it takes nine weeks to get through. For that, you can charge anywhere from $500 to $3000 for a signature course. And the trick here is that the thing that helps you sell more courses is two things. One, have a payment plan. And I say have a payment plan for anything, probably $200 or more, especially where the economy is right now. Payment plans allow people to make a yes decision a whole lot faster. So I love payment plans. And also a guarantee, 30-day money back guarantee, 60-day money back guarantee, or when you're more advanced and done it for a long time, I have a two-week guarantee. But it gets shorter as you get better at what you do. But 14 years ago, I had a 60-day money back guarantee. And so you just kind of have to play around with that. Got it. What do you say to the urge to include as many modules and videos and as much content in your course as you can? Because that urge comes from a good place, right? It's because you want to just give them everything. But what do you think about that? I love this question because it comes from a good place. You want to give as much value as you can. It also comes from a place of fear that, oh my gosh, if I'm charging $200, I better teach them everything I know so they get the value. And what you're actually doing is a huge disservice to your students because they're overwhelmed, they're going to get stuck, and they're not going to get to the finish line. And so what I teach my students is what exactly do they need to know to get these results? Everything you put in your outline, what I teach is you go back to your outline and you ask yourself, is this absolutely necessary for the results that I'm promising? And if it's good to have, but not necessary, you take it out and you make it a bonus for when people buy, they get this extra bonus. They don't have to have it, but it's nice to have. So now you've got some extra fun content to play with to increase your offer value, but we have to prune. That's the last step in creating a digital course outline that's going to be successful. We prune and most people need to take out content versus add content. Guilty. I have so been guilty of that. I think we all have. Yeah, it's so hard not to just give them everything, but you're so obviously right, but like once you see that, oh, wow, me giving them this extra thing is actually going to take away from their ability to get the result. And you're like, oh my gosh, like it really is that important. I know what I'm going to be doing tomorrow. So let's talk tech. So what type of platforms do you recommend for administering a course like this? So I want you to keep this as simple as possible, less bells and whistles, the better. And so first of all, you do not need to be on camera in your digital course. You can, but you don't need to. I have a friend that makes millions of dollars with her digital courses and she never shows her face. It's slide and audio. So in order to do just slides and audio, you need screen flow or Camtasia. These are two pieces of software that are easy to figure out. You can give yourself a little time, but I used to edit all my videos, record all my videos, and I am not techy, and I use screen flow on my Mac. So that's the software that I would recommend. From there, if you want to be direct to camera, we're using a smart phone, natural lighting or a ring light. Let's keep this very, very simple. You don't even need a fancy mic for this. And so the less technology, the better, because you won't get tripped up. And then of course, you want to house your course behind lock and key so that the only people can get in are those that have a log in. Kajabi and Searchi. They're the best of the best. I use them both for different things, but both of them are fantastic. Searchi and Kajabi. So those are the pieces of technology that you will need. And then an email service provider, but we're hoping everyone gets that even in advance of starting to create their course. Convert kit is my favorite email service provider, but there are tons you can start with and most are free in the beginning. So those are the pieces of technology, but a real quick tip here. Do not let it trip you up. When I asked people why they didn't buy my programs, a lot of people will say I'm scared of the technology. And the thing is, I promise you, it has gotten so much easier over the years and the step-by-step tutorials that you can get from this software platforms are golden out of this world better. Like if I think about 14 years ago, I was coding and I didn't even know how to code. None of that is necessary anymore. So it's gotten simpler and it should never be an excuse for you. You can figure it out. So let's transition into talking specifically about podcasting. So Groza Show pro member John asks, how do you promote the launch of your course specifically on your podcast? Do you do a dedicated episode? Do you play the audio of the webinar? Like how can I leverage my podcast to bring more traffic to the course? Oh, there's so many different ways. Okay. So first of all, what I teach my students is we do a pre-launch period 30 days before you actually are selling your course. Let's say you're going to do webinars to sell your course. The 30 days before you open up registration for your webinar, you're priming the pump. So when you prime the pump, I want you to create a lead magnet that would be perfect for someone who eventually wants to buy your course. And you're going to talk about that lead magnet all month on your podcast every episode you're going to mention it. And I want you to do a solo episode somehow related to whatever it is you're going to sell. And it might be like a mindset shift they need to make before they're ever ready to buy. But as you get closer to your webinar and you open up, let's say registration, whether you do a webinar or bootcamp, a challenge, use your podcast to fill up that sales vehicle. So our podcast is one of the number one ways we fill up webinars because I choose an episode where maybe I'm going to do a case study or talk about an experience related to the course I'm selling. But I'm not talking about the course at all. I'm talking about just the story, the example, the strategy, and then I invite people onto the webinar. And so that's how I use my podcast. I do not use my podcast. Well, I should say 5% of my podcast is used to directly sell the rest of the time I'm promoting a webinar or a lead magnet that will lead them to eventually hear about my course. That part's a very important distinction. Now, how do I directly sell with that 5%, yeah, what's the five? That's next. Well, let's say I do a webinar and I do two or three webinars. I take the one that's done the best and a couple days before my cart closes, I play the entire webinar as a bonus on my podcast. It's only up for about 48 hours. And so because the offer's going to go away, so I don't want to live on forever. So I'll do the podcast. I just literally strip the audio. But in the beginning, I'll record something saying like, hey, I've got something extra special for you. For the next 48 hours, you can listen to this webinar. And this is a webinar I did just a few days ago, but you've got 48 hours. So make sure you don't miss it. I email about it. I post about it on social and it absolutely increases my sales. Very cool. So let's talk podcast growth. Just just another minute or so. What's working today for getting new listeners to the show? Today, 2023, this stuff obviously changes. And you know, for you to have a show, that's the top of the charts. As long as you've had, you obviously got to roll with the changes. So what's working today? So this is something that probably would have worked years ago, but I didn't do it. I struggled with seeing downloads increase on my podcast for about a good year. I just couldn't see the growth. And so last year, we decided that I'm going to go to two episodes a week. And I always do a Thursday episode. It's either a solo episode or an interview and usually 45 minutes to an hour. I decided to do a Tuesday episode that's about 15 to 20 minutes max and it's always solo. And it typically is something I'm working on struggling with, a challenge I had, taking them behind the scenes. So it's off the cuff. It's quick. There's no script or anything like that. And so it's very easy for me to create. I went to two episodes. I literally went from 500,000 downloads to a million within a month. And so I guess if you think if I've got all these dedicated listeners, now they're going to listen to two episodes, it just really, really skyrocketed my downloads. And then I was able to get a really big sponsor hub spot. And now I'm making a lot of money with my podcast. So going to two episodes was a really good idea. The other thing is getting inside of a network that has helped me immensely. So even HubSpot takes smaller shows than mine. And they've got different levels. But what I love about being in a network is we all promote each other's shows. So at the top of my show, every single episode I'm promoting somebody else's show suggesting they go listen to in my network. So I feel as though that collab has helped me immensely. In addition to that, I've already talked about this. I never missed that Thursday email promoting my podcast. And I do social posts with those sneak peak videos. That's how I get a newer audience. And then finally, the thing that I think probably works the best is what I'm doing right now. I go on other shows. If you love Kevin's show, then you're going to possibly love mine as well. And you're all podcast listeners. So why not come over and check out my show as well. I think what we're doing right now is really powerful. 100%. Okay, Amy. In addition to checking out your podcast, what can listeners who are ready to launch their course do if they want your help? Okay. So I have a bootcamp coming out. And I know you have a link for it. Maybe you could put in the show notes or wherever you want to put it. But once a year, I do a bootcamp called Course Confident. It's $47. So one of the cheapest things I offer. And I do four live trainings on how to get started specifically. And I know your audience like step by step specifics. That's what the bootcamp is. I do the trainings live. I'm there every day. And this is how you kickstart your course creation. The boot camps coming up highly recommend you all get in there. This is your first invitation to let's get that course up and running. This episode of Grow the Show was written by me and produced by myself and Jeremy greater post production was done by podcast boutique my number one podcast production agency. If you want to take your shows production to the next level and you want your show notes and social media promo content to be taken care of for you and definitely set up a chat with podcast boutique by going to podcast boutique.com or by clicking on the link in the show notes. Also, if you thought this episode was helpful, please let us know by leaving a review on Apple or Spotify. I read every single one of them. And if I know what episodes you found the most helpful, I can make more episodes just like that so that you can grow and monetize even faster. For Grow the Show, my name is Kevin Schmidland. I'll see you next time.