103: The Three Ingredients You NEED to Grow Your Podcast Audience

This episode of Grow the Show is sponsored by Riverside.fm, the leading platform to record studio quality podcasts from anywhere. More than 70,000 other podcasters use Riverside, including myself, GuyRaz, GaryVee, companies like Spotify, and even the New York Times. What's amazing about Riverside is that when you're recording a podcast or a remote interview, the recording quality is independent of Wi-Fi stability, which is huge. Your content is recorded locally, which ensures reliable and uncompressed content quality. It's basically a studio inside your browser, and it is super intuitive and easy to use. Once your recording is done, you'll automatically be able to download separate audio and video tracks and edit your content all with a few clicks. So if you haven't yet, give Riverside a try. Visit Riverside.fm and use my code Grow15, that's GROW15, to start recording studio quality sound and video and get 15% off a membership plan. This is Grow the Show. My name is Kevin Schmidland, and my mission is to help you the independent podcaster to grow your audience and monetize now so that you can have a profitable podcast business. Today I'm going to share with you the three things that your audience growth strategy needs if you want to get podcast listeners regularly and reliably. So if you are a podcaster who has been struggling with audience growth and you have been doing something to try to grow your audience, then the odds are if it's not working, it was missing one of the three things that I'm about to walk through. So what I have found through talking with thousands of podcasters over the past few years is that when a podcaster's audience is not growing the way that they wanted to, it's usually missing one of three things. And so I'm going to map out what those three things are today. And the third one is actually the secret one that most people don't intuitively get, but it usually is the killer that makes even the best thought through growth strategy not work. But before we get into those, first of all, what I need to say is you do need to have some sort of podcast growth strategy. If you don't have one and if you've just been releasing episodes and putting them on an RSS feed, that show is not going to grow. If you build it, nobody's going to know in the podcasting world. It's not like other platforms where you can put something out there and the platform will do the work for you to find people who will like it. Podcasting, it will be only crickets and you must must must couple your production with some sort of marketing or growth strategy. So that's number one, you have to be doing something. We at Grow the Show call those audience growth activities. You must regularly and reliably be performing audience growth activities, just making the show and putting it online is not going to be enough. So assuming that you are on board with that, you agree, you understand that you have to be doing something. Oz are that if you're hearing my voice right now, you probably are trying to do something to grow your podcast audience. The most common things that I see is I'm posting on social media and I'm begging my guests to spread the word. Those are the most common things. Those don't really, really work these days. But there's also other strategies that people know about like being a guest on other podcasts, SEO strategies, paid ad spend, word of mouth, right. So there's tons of podcast growth strategies. And guess what? They all work. They all work. And so if you're someone who is saying, oh man, I tried that, but that didn't work for my show. They all work for your show. They all will work for your show. If you figure out these three things, right, if you get these three things in alignment. And so here's what they are. Essentially podcast growth is nothing more than a podcast listener going from the point where they have never heard of your show or they've never listened to your show to the point where they have pressed play and they've started listening to your show. That in a nutshell is what podcast growth is. Somebody is a podcast listener and they don't listen to your show. Then they listen to your show. And they're now a listener. The more people you can get to discover your show and tune in the faster your podcast will grow. That's what all of the podcast audience growth strategies boil down to getting people who don't know about your show to discover it and listen. And so what I missed for a long time and when I see a lot of people missing with their podcast audience growth strategies is the understanding that in that moment in the moment that somebody discovers your show for the first time there are three factors that govern whether that person when they discover your show is actually going to tune in right is actually going to press play and listen to your podcast and become a listener. Three things. And so those three things I call the three C's clarity connection and context. Let's dive into all three. So the first one is clarity. Now if you've heard me talk about anything ever before you have heard me talk about niching down and getting more specific and getting more clear about what your podcast is who it's for and what it's going to give those people. This is level one and this is where I see the most people's shows not growing. It's because their premise is vague and confusing and it's not well defined. So that's their show title their show description and just overall what the identity of the show is. And so out of the gate if you can't describe really succinctly what your podcast is what makes it unique and what it's going to give to people who listen to it and hint hint strategies tips tricks and stories are not enough so you can't say my podcast is stories everything is stories what are those stories going to give to the listener right. So the listener needs to have clarity behind what the show is and what it's going to do for them. So that's number one. I've talked at length about that. I've got tons of other videos and episodes of the girl show podcast that go into being more specific and being more clear behind what your podcast is. So I won't go too much into that here but that is table stakes right. The person who discovers your podcast must quickly have clarity behind what the show is and why they're going to like it. So that's number one. And like I said that is a huge killer the show's just vague. It's just success stories. It's just entrepreneurship. It's just telling stories sharing experiences like I don't it's not clear to me why I want to hear those things right. So that's number one. Number two is something that some podcasters intuitively get but not everyone and so the while the first C is clarity the second C is connection. So Tony Robbins says that when you learn something it's nothing more than making a connection between something you already know and something you don't know right. So there's something you don't know you connect it to something you already know and now you've learned that thing. That's why analogies are so good when teaching people something and you're like it's kind of like this and they're like oh I know what that is okay now I understand this thing. Well the same thing is actually true about podcast discovery. Here's what I mean by that in my opinion from what I've seen every audience growth strategy that works in my opinion and in my experience works because the person who discovers your podcast makes a connection between your show and someone they trust or something they want and if you think about literally any of the podcast growth strategies that are popular or that work you will see this level of connection at play. The most obvious one is word of mouth. So if you have a friend reach out to you and say hey I just heard this podcast you gotta check it out you're gonna love it then you're immediately going to trust that podcast because it is linked to somebody you already trust there's no vetting you're like oh wow my best friend loves the show cool I'm in right the same thing is true when you the podcaster are a guest on another podcast that listeners already like those listeners listen to their favorite show they hear you as a guest they link you to their favorite show and so they're like oh cool this podcast is linked to a podcast I like therefore I will probably like this one the same thing is true with when you see social media actually work for podcast promotion I've talked about this at length as well so I won't go into too much detail here but in short social media is able to grow a podcast when you don't promote yourself but when you participate on social media and so when it comes to what you do on social media right so the content that you post and the engagement that you make with other people on social people are gonna want to listen to your podcast when they trust you because either they consumed a piece of content that was really good that they enjoyed and so they're like oh that person makes good stuff I'll probably like their podcast as well or when you engage with them on social media through comments or DMs and after that engagement they like you and they're like oh this person's really cool I had a great DM conversation or we had a great exchange in the comments I'll probably like their podcast right and so you're able to get them to trust you a little bit because you gave them something or you were cool or you entertained them and then they link your podcast with you and they know that they like you at least a little bit so they're more likely to like the podcast where people screw up on social media is that they don't gain any trust they just join a Facebook group and say new episode available now and everyone's like we don't know who you are we don't trust you why would I like that and if anything they get a negative connection to the show because they're like look at this person being self-promotional what a jerk but if they know you and trust you they actually love when you promote your stuff so the way that you gain trust on social media the way that you get people to have a positive view of you which then that positive view they link to your podcast is to either post content that's good that they like that's not overly self-promotional and not just new episode now link in bio I really enjoyed talking to this person right that doesn't give them anything so it's not gonna build any trust or you do TDE targeted daily engagement and you engage with them right you have a conversation in the DMs or in the comments that makes them like you and then they'll listen to your show another popular podcast growth strategy is when your guest shares on social media or your guest that you've had in your show spreads the word about the fact that they were on your show again same thing is that play here they spread the word to their audience their audience links your show with them because that audience already trusts and likes them and so they're like cool I like your podcast because you have this guest who I liked so there's the connection there another really big podcast growth strategy is SEO search engine optimization more so in my opinion within the podcasting apps where somebody searches for a type of podcast and your podcast shows up the reason why they are willing to give your podcast a shot is because they discovered it and they made a connection between your podcast and something that they want whatever the thing is that they were searching for they searched for it the search engine or podcast app presented your show as an option when while they were searching for what they wanted and so they're like cool this might have what I want and so they make a connection between your show and something that they want finally that same dynamic is at play with any paid spend right paid ads so either social media ads or billboards or paid spend in the podcast apps or anytime you spend money for advertisement the only way that's going to work is if the potential listener sees your advertisement and they connect that advertisement with something that they already want and they believe that the show is going to give them that thing that they want and so they'll listen to it now again if your show doesn't have clarity behind what it offers the potential listener is not going to know if what it offers is what they want so that's why we start with number one we got to have clarity and so my challenge to you with this number two connection is to think about the things that you are doing to try to grow your podcast audience and think about the moments when people discover your show for the first time with the audience growth strategies that you're currently using what are people connecting your show to the moment they discover it who or what like I said before all these podcast growth strategies work and they all will work for your show if you figure out how to achieve clarity and how to make it so that when people discover your show they connect it with someone they trust or something they want okay so the third C is the secret killer behind these podcast growth strategies and so I'll tell you a quick story that demonstrates the power of this I was chatting the other day with somebody who was potentially interested in the Grow the Show podcast accelerator which is a three month program that helps podcasters build a system so that their podcast audience grows 20 to 100% every single month and they're able to monetize now and start generating revenue and so I was having a conversation with somebody who has a really really niche podcast the podcast is about this person's profession and it targets a specific person in a specific job and there's only about two to three thousand people who hold that job in the whole country and so it's about as niche of an audience as you can possibly get now this person came to me and they were chatting to me because their podcast was not growing at all they were stuck at a small downloads number and it was confounding to them because they had a really really really specific audience and they know that they had gotten in front of that audience before what the person said was that I know who this audience is sometimes I think it might be too niche because I know exactly who these 2000 people are and in fact we got a professional trusted organization to send out a mailer to all 2500 of these people in the whole country who hold this job title so a professional organization that these people are remember of literally mailed them a flyer that said you should listen to this podcast now this person I was chatting to was dumbfounded because it didn't do anything it didn't work at all even though they were able to mail a flyer to every single person who is the perfect podcast listener for them none of them actually tuned in and so why is that it's because of the third C which is the reason why a lot of people and organizations podcast growth strategy is not working and that third C is context what is the context that the person is in when they discover your show for the first time and so think about your life right when you are sitting on the couch watching Netflix that's one context when you are driving to work that's another context where you're a different person with different interests right when you are cooking dinner that's another context these are all different contexts that you live your life in and so that kind of context is actually crucial when you discover new things so let's think on an individual level about that person who is considering the grow the show podcast accelerator and why that incredibly brilliant marketing campaign for their podcast fell completely flat so they had clarity behind what the show is it is super super clear super specific it's for a really specific set of people they had connection in that they were able to reach all 2500 of those people who hold that job title and the fire came from a organization that all those people know and trust so they had clarity and they had connection but the strategy still fell completely flat on its face and it's because they reached people in the wrong context think about it how many steps is it going to take from the moment you open your mail to the moment you are listening to a 60 minute podcast episode what are the things that have to happen okay think about it number one you have to go you have to be at your mailbox or wherever you are when you open your mail you open up the letter you pull it out you see this flyer about a podcast you think oh that's cool now number one you may or may not even be a podcast listener you may or may not even know what a podcast is but let's say that you are you see you're like oh cool that's a cool podcast I should check that out what do you do next what the vast majority of humans aren't going to do is pull out their phone open the podcast app put in their earphones and start listening right that sounds weird who's going to do that what's most likely to happen nobody's going to start listening right then and there now maybe they'll pull out their phone pull out their podcast app of choice scan the QR code or maybe type in the name of the show find it hit subscribe and then put their phone away and tomorrow morning when they do their weekly podcast listening hopefully your show will show up and they'll be reminded because they hit subscribe but again that's a lot of stuff that you that needs to happen between the moment they discover your show and the moment they're listening to an episode and it's too much it's unlikely what's most likely to happen is that that listener is going to pull out that flyer they're going to go huh interesting podcast they're going to throw it away and that's it tomorrow morning or later in the week when they're working out or whenever it is in their routine that they listen to podcasts the odds that they are going to number one remember that flyer number two remember what the show was called and the number three search for that show instead of just pressing play on Joe Rogan or whatever else they already subscribed to is so low and so even though this podcaster had a brilliant strategy and so lucky where they were able to have clarity behind their show a really niche audience and they were able to send mail to every single person in that potential audience the podcast growth strategy still did not work at all because they did not reach those people in the context of being a podcast listener there was too many steps that needed to happen between the moment that they discovered the show and the moment that they were actually listening to an episode the same week I was talking to another group of people who are considering the accelerator program my enrollment specialist one of occasion so I was having these conversations for a week which was cool because I haven't taken them in a while but I had another conversation with a duo who work for a company that company has a really really great podcast and they've invested tons into growth strategies and making a great show the show is amazing but they just can't get their download numbers up and so I asked them what strategies have you used to try to grow the show and they've said we've taken out magazine ads we've been on social media we've done newsletters we've done all these different things none of which reach people when they are in or close to the context of being a podcast listener think about it when someone's reading a magazine they're not listening to a podcast they have to see the ad type it in yada yada yada then maybe tomorrow or next week they listen and there's just too much going on there's too much in our faces all day it's gone and so the closer people find out about your podcast to the moment that they are in the context of being a podcast listener the more successful your podcast growth strategy will be this is why the tried and true most scalable most effective way to grow a podcast audience is by having your podcast featured on other podcasts because by definition it's going to achieve the second and third C the second and third thing you need for someone to actually press playing your podcast number one people are going to discover your show while they're already in the context of being a podcast listener because they discover your show either by you being a guest on another podcast or your podcast taking out an ad on another podcast or even your podcast taking out an ad in the podcast app that they use right so they log in and they see an ad for your show and they're about to listen to podcasts anyway so they press play or for SEO purposes they might be searching for a podcast to listen to they search for something your show comes up they're like oh that looks interesting they press play again they're in the context of being a podcast listener and so that is the key now of course there are other ways to grow your podcast word of mouth web SEO social media ads targeted daily engagement these things all do work to grow your podcast but they're going to be less efficient because you're not reaching people who are in the context of being a podcast listener there's a bunch of steps that they have to take between that moment and that context that they're in and finally pressing play and listening to your podcast episode so for you think about the podcast growth strategies that you are employing right now and think about it when someone discovers my show for the first time via this strategy number one will they have absolute clarity on what the podcast is and what it's going to do for them number two are they going to somehow be making a connection between my podcast that they've never heard about before and me who they've never heard about before and someone they trust or something they want in that moment it has to be in that moment that they discover your show and finally how close are they to being in the context of being a podcast listener when they discover your show or put more simply how many steps are they going to need to take between the moment that they discover my show and the moment that they're listening if it's a lot of steps it's not going to work even if you have perfect targeting maximum clarity and there's a connection between someone they know or something they want and your show even if you have those two things if the context that you reach them in is too far away from the context of being a podcast listener the growth strategy is not going to work and so again all of these strategies can work for your show all of these strategies work it's just a matter of you finding the right combination where somebody discovers your show they have clarity they connect it to someone they trust or something they want and they're as close to being in the context of being a podcast listener as possible and so the game of growing and monetizing a podcast is just finding something that satisfies all three of those and doing as much of that as you possibly can so I know this one was a little bit more pie in the sky hopefully this gave you some clarity behind why your podcast is or isn't growing because by the way I do hear from a lot of people whose podcast is growing and they have no idea how and a lot of times it's these things right it might be SEO or word of mouth or something like that but those three things are being satisfied so whether you do or you don't know why your podcast is or isn't growing my hope is that those three C's will provide you some clarity and make it a little bit easier for you to make your show grow more because now you have an overall understanding of how this actually works if you want to know my four steps to a thriving growing podcast business check out the four steps masterclass the link is in the show notes thanks so much